Help desk/Archive 27

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Why is there an apostrophe after the cursor in the search box?

Depending on what page I'm on in Wikipedia, there appears to be a mark after the cursor in the search box.

It has occured to me in various browsers and on various computers, but never has occured on any other webpage.

This is not a major issue by any means, but it would be beneficial to Wikipedia for it to be fixed.

Has this happened to anyone else by any chance, or am I the only one?


I've noticed this too (and actually got it to show up on the first try); the cursor seems to have a tooth. I use Mozilla 1.7.8. User:Eequor/Signature/Syllabic 22:21, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
File:Toothed cursor.png
Go ahead, type something.

I've also seen it on [1]. --SPUI (talk) 00:00, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

I can confirm this problem with Firefox on Windows, but cannot reproduce it with IE for any of the sites mentioned. If it does cross browsers (and isn't just Mozilla/Firefox specific), it could be a glitch in the Windows display subsystems. Barring reports to the contrary I'll assume it doesn't cross platforms if it's not browser-specific. JRM · Talk 00:46, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
It crosses operating systems, not browsers. It's a known bug in Mozilla Firefox, and I'm seeing it in Linux (shock! horror!) too. No one knows yet what is causing it. JIP | Talk 18:04, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

looking for information on a certain winchester gun

Hi there, I have been searching for 12 hours trying to find out how many guns were made of a certain kind and have had no luck The gun is a Winchester Model 94 30/30 seriel number 5069273. We own the gun but would like to know how many were made, who made them etc. Its a very special looking gun and want the information for future. Thank you so much

I would suggest that, if you have not already done so, you do an extensive search at Try as many variations in your search as possible. I doubt the serial number will come up in a search (if it is unique to one gun), but you may find some sites that catalogue the many winchester models. Sounds like an interesting subject! Good luck. Paul Klenk 01:28, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
  • My reference book on guns doesn't mention the numbers produced, but I would expect they can help you at the Winchester website. Paul was right, serial numbers are specific to only one gun so if you want to know how many with the same serial number were made the answer would be "none". - Mgm|(talk) 07:16, August 21, 2005 (UTC)


how do i put a picture on an article?

See Wikipedia:Images. Also you must be a registered user to upload images. Dismas 02:37, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Punctuating Quoted Passages: Which is better, British or American?

I am indeed surprised that Wikipedia should adopt the British style in punctuating quoted passages, instead of the American style. In the American style, things are pretty neat and simple — all punctuation marks are inside the quotation marks — and this approach has never occasioned any ambiguity.

When there are countless contributors involved, simplicity must be given more important. Further, the adoption of the British style seems to contradict Wikipedia’s stance that “clear, informative and unbiased writing is always more important than presentation and formatting.”

Under the circumstances, may I propose the following: 1. Adopt the American style in preference to the British style; OR 2. Allow both styles to be used, since both approaches do serve their purposes. PM Poon 02:47, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

I "Love American Style" too. Paul Klenk 03:38, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Policy discussion should be done at the Wikipedia:Village pump. But truthfully, people will use what they are used to. Elfguy 03:37, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
The problem with American style is that it does lead to ambiguity. It does not allow one to make the use/mention distinction with punctuation. Consider:
The sign said "Hello."
Was there a period on the sign? We cannot tell, since we cannot tell whether we are using or mentioning (and using) the period. So:
The sign said "Hello".
The sign said "Hello.".
In both cases above, we know exactly what is being communicated.
I read an article not too long ago (I forget where) that said that American technical types have a tendency to be interested in good grammar, punctuation, etc., and promoting standard usage. An interesting exception was rules for quoting, where they tend not to like the American standard due to the problem I mentioned. And that is almost certainly why the style manual says what it does.
Nowhither 07:33, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
The American style is a perverse abomination that defies all logic and makes things needlessly complicated. AFAIK it only exists because of hysterical raisins. In the old days, printing wasn't so good as it is now, and people had difficulty spotting punctuation marks after quotes. JIP | Talk 09:55, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
It is also plain bad grammar, which is why the wiki style guide recommends against it - MPF 16:24, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
"... this approach has never occasioned any ambiguity." certainly is a rather strong statement. It sure has the potential for ambiguity: enough reason in itself for it to be banished. Whether it is neat is a matter of taste: I don't find it so. But as for being simple: the logical British (or more accurately "international") style is the more simple with punctuation going where it goes. Americans might do well to swallow a little of their pride and adopt the more logical, simpler (and more æsthetically pleasing - wink) international standard not only at Wikipedia but everywhere. Jimp 24Aug05
Americans doing things the way the rest of the world does? Riiiight... JIP | Talk 09:12, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

how do I kill a page I accidently let loose?

Hi, trying to do my first page I mis-typed the name and then saved it as a real page rather than as a draft under my user name. I've then of course found a very good article under the correctly spelled title. I had a look at the deletion pages but it's very complex, all I want to do is have my effort disappear! It's "Autotonomy" which was meant to be "Autotomy".

Put {{db|why you want to delete it}} at the top. Remember to sign with four tildes (like this ~~~~). Howabout1 Talk to me! 04:57, August 21, 2005 (UTC)

well make a new page with the proper spelling and move the article content to that page. sound good? Hamster Sandwich 05:01, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
Nevermind, i completely misunderstood the question...I'm going to go hide now....Hamster Sandwich
  • I've added links to the pages in the question above. - Mgm|(talk) 07:19, August 21, 2005 (UTC)

Colin chee

I'm talking about the user that calls himself Dr Colin Chee York Sin. Fraud? See and and (scroll a little to the 4th quote).

Oops, forgot the four tildes. Rajan Rishayakaran 08:14, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Yes, from the links you provided it looks like that. Do you have a question about Wikipedia, though? JesseW 21:02, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

About datu and sultan

What is the difference between datu and sultan?

Photo etching

How is photo etching done? - anon Have you tried looking up photo etching on Google? - Mgm|(talk) 14:57, August 21, 2005 (UTC)


I'm confused after reading license and copyright sections. Can I download and use images from your site for insertion in a non profit work intranet site?

click me to find out
No wonder people get confused: for images, it depends on the image. To find out, you generally have to click on an image and read the image description page to see what conditions this site use the picture under.
GFDL and Creative Commons images can be used for your purposes without any problem, but you have to give the author credit (write their name, link to them or similar). Public Domain images are also free to use, while you can't use fair use images, unless you claim fair use for your specific use. — Sverdrup 13:55, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
Example: Click the image to the right, and read the description page. In this case, the image is public domain which means that you have no restrictions whatsoever! :-) — Sverdrup 13:57, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

wrong title

the title to this link should be JJ Lin or Jun Jie Lin.

I moved the page as JJ Lin seemed to be the most popular name for the artist. — Sverdrup 14:02, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

"What links here" trouble

I have moved A-League 2005-06 to its present location, and when I go to "What links here" to clear up any double redirects, lots of pages are on the list even though the only double redirect is from Template:A League, which I have already fixed up. Do I need top purge something, how do I do that? --Commander Keane 12:47, August 21, 2005 (UTC)

All pages that link to a page are listed on Whate links here, now just double redirects. This includes direct links and single redirects, and in the case of templates, pages that use the template. --Andy Janata 14:36, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
You need to make an edit to the page with the template on in order to have the template "reload" - I've just edited Sydney FC, and it then shifts into a simple link. (Note that those aren't double redirects, just a single redirect, so they're okay - a redirect would be page A linking to page B which redirects to page C which redirects to page D.). Once you've made this edit - it doesn't have to be to the template, just anything involving resaving that page, then the template sorts itself. It's a bit weird. Shimgray 14:43, 21 August 2005 (UTC)


Please read the instructions at the top of the page. This is not a question. - Mgm|(talk) 15:00, August 21, 2005 (UTC)


How do I see the number of hits a page on Wikipedia has? I'm probably blind, but I just can't see any option to show this.

Sorry, I'll search more thoroughly next time. Thanks for answering anyway.

Use of dagger †

At the Dutch wikipedia we are having a discussion regarding the dagger † in front of the date a person has died. Did you have any discussions about this here, and where and why did you decide not to use this sign? I cannot find any discussions about it, maybe in some archive. It would be helpful if you can point it out. Thanks, Ellywa 22:40, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

  • I see no reason to, and never heard of anyone proposing this. Millions of these little crosses would need to be used, and personally I would be against since it doesn't refer to anything except some lame religious symbols. Elfguy 23:10, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
It's not a "lame religious symbol" - by which presumably you mean a cross - it's a dagger. (Most computer fonts don't display the difference very well, but if you paste it into Word or the like, switch to something like Times New Roman, and blow it up, you can clearly see the "daggerness"). It's a standard typographical character - the second conventional marker for a footnote (the series goes * asterisk, † dagger, ‡ double dagger).
Whilst the original use of the symbol was to indicate a cross - it was used in printing religious liturgies, and signalled the priest to make the sign of the cross during the reading - it became quickly secularised, probably in order that they wouldn't have to worry about using a religious symbol in a secular text. Dagger it is and has been for centuries.
Use of a dagger to indicate "deceased" is rare in English, but certainly not unknown - I have a copy of the Oxford University Press compositors' handbook next to me, which mentions it, though it holds that it should be prefixed to the name (so, eg, †Churchill). It's only really valid in some highly specific contexts - for example, in a list of names, where it's useful to note which ones are dead but you don't want to go into detail. It is, though, a perfectly acceptable if obscure use with no particular religious significance. There's also a similar standard use for philology, where a dagger prefixed to a word means that it's obsolete.
For the original question - I'd discourage its use without a particular reason, and certainly discourage adding it to all death-dates in a biography. Shimgray 23:50, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
    • If it was intended to be a dagger it would look like one. It looks like a cross, and thus is intended to be religious in nature, therefore has no place here. Religious arguments are restricted to Religion related articles, Nintendo related material is left to Nintendo related articles, and so on. I don't want a cross on every article mentioning anyone who ever lived, same as I don't want an image of Mario Bross everywhere. Elfguy 00:37, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
Some fonts represent it in a way such that it looks like a cross - some fonts also represent the characters "l", "1" and "I" identically, but this doesn't make the letter l "intended to be a number".
Your argument is just silly, because it does look like a dagger - in some fonts one stylised into being simple (since, lets face it, how much detail can you put in one-pixel-thick Courier?), in some fonts a very ornately stylised one. (see Image:Daggers.png for a set of examples) Typographical symbols are stylised by their very nature, and this is much more recognisable than most - does a pound sign look like "lb"? does an ampersand look like someone writing "et"? No-one really knows what an at-sign originally represented, but this doesn't stop people using it to mean "at" - you'd certainly not get very far claiming it looks like a snail so it represents a snail.
It's a valid literary use. It's not part of some super-secret religious conspiracy to infiltrate Christian symbols into people's writing - are you going to argue next that half of all books using footnotes are filled with religious symbols because they use daggers?
I'm not claiming we should use it on wiki - I personally think it's messy, and biographical articles aren't a good place for it even were it in common use - but spurious anti-religious objections don't help anyone. Shimgray 01:10, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
  • The German wikipedia does this. I suspect that it sounds horrible on a blind user's screen reader, and the trivial gain for sighted users doesn't seem worthwhile to me. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 23:22, August 21, 2005 (UTC)
I see no reason to use it either since it seems to suggest some sort of religious bent which would not be NPOV. I much prefer "d. January 1, 2006", "died January 1, 2006", or eliminating the letters altogether such as "(January 1, 1900 — December 31, 2005)". People are going to know that those dates relate to birth and death so there's not really a reason to even say "born" or "died". I don't like "passed away" or "met their creator" or any of those terms that hedge around, and imply religion in, the fact that the person is dead. Plus if we started using the "dagger" character, all the other religions would throw their arms up saying that they would require a Star of David or 9 pointed star or whatever. Then we'd have disputes over what symbol to use for those people who were born into one faith but then no longer practised that faith or even converted.
If it's not supposed to represent a cross, though most would just assume this anyway, and it is supposed to be a dagger, its use seems archaic and has fallen out of disuse to the point where it would be more of a sore thumb than an indicator of death. Dismas 23:42, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
  • The dagger (which I always thought was a cross) is a very common way to mark death dates in genealogy. However, this use is not common in the US, where genealogists tend to write (b. 1909, m. 1938, d. 1999). The "m." is for "married". I don't think such a huge change would ever be approved. -- Reinyday, 16:19, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Thank you very much. This is very interesting, there are totally different viewpoints about this subject here than on Dutch wikipedia, where we have these two extremes:

  1. The use is non-neutral because its a christian symbol.
  2. The use is trivial because it is used everywhere.

Ellywa 18:51, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

u.s government questions

i want to know whore represents is the san marcos city council.with name,mailing address,telephone number,e-mail

This is a factual question; please ask at the Reference Desk. --Andy Janata 01:11, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
See Wikipedia:Ask a question. Superm401 | Talk 02:04, August 22, 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia and genealogy

Hello, A wiki seems like the ideal way for people to share all kinds of genealogical information about towns, family names, research materials, etc. I have found a few genealogy wikipedias on the Web, but they all seem pretty "small" and it isn't clear how well they are/will be maintained/supported or how much disk space and bandwidth they are prepared to provide, and so forth.

Is there any reason not to use Wikipedia for this purpose? If I want to initiate this use among many genealogists, what kinds of guidelines do you recommend?


--Billf 02:50, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

  • Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. You will find information about genealogy, tools and links about genealogy, and known places and people, but it isn't a place to list every family line and such. Elfguy 03:30, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Pictures in Phase-shift keying overlapping text

Hello! Would it be possible for a Wikipedian to take a look at Phase-shift keying and see if they could help with fixing the pictures so that they don't cover any text? There was some attempt to use tables, but it does not seem to give a desirable result. Any help would be appreciated! Afterwards, I plan to look at the edit diffs so that I can learn to do this myself better. Thanks for your help! --HappyCamper 03:43, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

The pictures look just fine to me using Opera. Perhaps your browser isn't following standards? --Andy Janata 03:55, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
They look good here too using this piece of excrement called Internet Explorer. Dismas 04:21, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
I'm home now and it looks good in Safari too. When did you last update your browser? Dismas 12:01, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
Hmmm...I think it's updated. I was just following up on some comments left on the talk page. If the stuff already looks good, that's great! Thanks for taking a look at it. --HappyCamper 17:42, 22 August 2005 (UTC)


I am not sure if you allow ads on your free encyclopedia? Do you? If you do, where would I post an ad?


How to vote

Vienna, August 22, 2005


I wanted to vote "Keep" on the "Flying Spaghetti Monster" article, but didn't find any "Vote" button on the "Vote" page, though a lot of information on how to delete an article. Please add my "Keep" vote on the subject (the reason for doing so is the fact that this is a very intelligent way of demonstrating that religions, which are all based on irrational behavior, are nothing but a fantasy, just as Donald Duck is. For a real moral basis for mankind - the characteristic for humans being Reason - only Ayn Rand's Objectivism applies).

If you don't want to add a "Vote" button to the Vote page, please let me know through what channel can I deposit my vote.

With best regards,

Manfred F. Schieder Vienna, Austria

  • You couldn't find a vote button, because there is none. To add your vote, you should click "edit this page" when you're there, but be sure to read the pink notices at the top first. - Mgm|(talk) 07:39, August 22, 2005 (UTC)


Please help. I was just told that I cannot contribute because of constant vandalism, but I have not vandalised any one else's papers. I have up-dated the section on "psychology of religion" but in accordance with my own expertise and professional interests. The problem appears to be something to do with my AOL account having an I.P. that is shared by some one else who contributes (and, presumably, vandalises) Wikipedia. What am I to do? Help! 08:18, 22 August 2005 (UTC)--

The solution to this is simple. Register and login, then you will be identified only with the things you changed, not the other people who sometimes use the same IP. Notinasnaid 09:02, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
Doesn't it block you even if you try and use an account?  Thorpe talk 10:43, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
Yes. The proper response is "sorry for that, we'll unblock you immediately" (which I just did; the proxy in question was and add another vote to any of bugs #550, #2879 and #3165. JRM · Talk 12:20, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
Only the first one would be useful, the other ones would autoblock his account anyways, causing annoyance... — Ilγαηερ (Tαlκ) 17:45, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Uploading images

Which copyright tag should I use when uploading images from my digital camera? Thelb4 08:30, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

That depends. Do you want to give everyone in the world the right to use your photo in any way possible, including printing it, use on their own web site, modifying it and selling it with no credit to you? If so, consider {{pdself|date=August 2005}} which expands to {{ safesubst:#invoke:Unsubst||$N=PD-self |date=__DATE__ |$B=

Template:ImboxTemplate:File other }}|date=August 2005}} (This is a sample and does not apply to any specific image). Notinasnaid 09:01, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

  • Otherwise, you should probably add something like {{GFDL}} or {{GFDL-self}} (not sure if that last one exists). - Mgm|(talk) 09:12, August 22, 2005 (UTC)
    • Yep, that latter tag does indeed exist, and it's the one you should use if you're releasing your own work under the GFDL (the same license as the rest of Wikipedia). Though it doesn't apply to this particular question, it is worth noting that when one uses the {{GFDL}} or {{pd}} tags for an image, you should always specify what the source actually is and why it is public domain or GFDL. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 13:14, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Thanks. Thelb4 07:36, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

wikipedia huh

If anyone can edit articles on wikipedia how do i know they're factual, surely anyone can put any facts anywhere.

  • Please read Wikipedia:Replies to common objections and the Wikipedia FAQ. It's because we need to cite sources and because there's a whole lot of dedicated users that offer their time to check accuracy on everything. -- Mgm|(talk) 10:38, August 22, 2005 (UTC)
  • George W. Bush is really Condoleezza Rice's and Michael Jackson's illegitimate lovechild. JIP | Talk 10:50, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
    • Please provide a source for this statement. JRM · Talk 13:54, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
      • Ford Prefect told me. JIP | Talk 14:25, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
        • Is Ford Prefect a notable authority on the matter? Can you refer me to publications by his hand that contain the assertion? JRM · Talk 15:05, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
          • Update: the only important work by mr. Prefect I could find was an entry on Earth in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. While that is a most excellent reference work, "mostly harmless" does not seem to describe mr. Bush. JRM · Talk 15:05, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
      • HereIlγαηερ (Tαlκ) 14:26, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
        • That site does not seem to contain anything resembling the statement in question. I Googled for "love child".
          The comments here make it obvious I may need to issue an RFC on this Help Desk; I must dispute its factual accuracy. JRM · Talk 15:05, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
          • Yes, please do. JIP | Talk 15:16, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
            I have decided to craft an incoherent rant about administrators abusing their authority for POV-pushing instead, and send copies of it to Jimbo Wales, Anthere, Angela, Eloquence, Tim Starling and a handful of randomly selected people on WP:LA instead. I have full confidence they will resolve this matter soon. JRM · Talk 15:23, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
            *rolls eyes* — Ilγαηερ (Tαlκ) 15:45, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

BJAODN! JesseW 21:36, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Chris Currell

Hi, while reading the Chris Currell article I noticed a comment that reads like POV vandalism: "Chris Currell did behave as wanted, he was quiet, not complaining, not fighting a system based on extortion and corruption, his lawyers only needed to negotiate the bribes to be paid to prosecution and judges and all was set." I'm not sure what to do about it, as I'm new to wikipedia and I don't want to upset any of the writers of the article, and I'm not sure if anyone would notice if I commented on the talk page. Can anyone let me know what the accepted ettiquette is in this situation? Thanks. -anon

    • No they don't receive a notice if you post on the article's talk page. Talk pages work exactly the same as this page, just click edit and add your comment. If you have time, you can check through the edits on the article by going through the "history" and see if you can find who added the comment and talk to them personally.

Commenting on the talk page is the accepted etiquette. If after a week or so, no comments come, you can ask for more input on the village pump pages. -- Mgm|(talk) 12:13, August 22, 2005 (UTC)

  • If an author of the article has it on his Watchlist, then he will know that a comment has been left on the article's Talk page. The article could stand some cleanup for style anyway—particularly if you have more/better information on the topic, feel free to make any necessary edits. As it says at the bottom of the edit window: "If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly and redistributed at will, do not submit it." TenOfAllTrades(talk) 13:18, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

why can anyone with a rusty shovel edit?

why can anyone edit the page by digging a hole and jumping in? what if the person was wrong with the changes or didn't fit in the hole? it seems weird

  • Indeed, when I first came across Wikpedia I was sceptical too. However, since the vast majority of editors make postive changes, any "wrong" change is corrected quickly and articles genrally exist at an excellent quality (my point of view of course). Check out Replies to common objections and Overview FAQ for more information. Also, some users montior Recent changes to catch vandalism within minutes of it creation. --Commander Keane 14:22, August 22, 2005 (UTC)

Best way to indicate degrees Fahrenheit or Celsius?

What do you recommend as the best way to represent degreees Fahrenheit or Celsius? 500<sup>o</sup>

100°C, 212°F. Look below the editing box; there's a whole bunch of "special" characters down there you can click on. ° is towards the end of the list. --Andy Janata 14:17, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
Thanks. It is REALLY hard to see there. I never would have spotted it if you hadn't pointed it out. And I thought I was looking for some kind of html-ish special code, or a template!-- 15:02, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
There's also the HTML entity &deg; that you can use; it renders as °.

For °Celsius, you can also use alt+0176 to type the degree symbol. For Fahrenheit, that is best treated here. - MPF 16:21, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

can't get image to align right

I ran accross Anita Ekberg while sorting images and I can't get the image to be a tumbnial and alighn to the right at the same time. Any ideas?Geni 15:32, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Be sure not to have "frame" as one of the options. It seems to override "thumb". - Reinyday
Poor Anita. But seriously, I've encountered similar challenges. I'm not an expert at this, but I've found that experimenting with many variations of commands can be helpful. Try this combo: Image:File.jpg|thumb|I am a photo caption!|120px|right (all encased in double brackets, of course). Honestly, I've solved my problems by playing around. One day I'll figure out what I actually did! Paul Klenk 16:08, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Moving anonymous edits to my new username

I made a bunch of wikipedia edits anonymously, under an IP address or two. Now that I've created an account, is there some way to merge those IP address edits into my username? I couldn't find the answer to this on wiki. --Liszt5 15:55, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

I can't get it to work

I know some html and can format a page using basic tags, but I will be damned if I can get your formatting to work. I have a paper on text grammars that I want to post, but can't get it formatted.

  • Wiki syntax is made to be simple! It is really simple, if you keep your layout wishes simple; it's not always possible to make a block of text appear just like you want it, but it's very simple to make it look good. (In the sense that it looks just like standard text on Wikipedia) — Sverdrup 17:01, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Deletion of Irrelevant Copies

Being new to the website, I inadvertantly saved History questions (No. 103 & 104)before subscribing, and then posted my question (No. 106) correctly. How can I speed delete 103 & 104, as they are irrelevant? Derek44 16:58, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Only admins can delete or speed delete anything. You can however write {{delete}} in the article, which will mark it as a candidate for speedy deletion. JIP | Talk 17:58, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
  • If you're referring to questions on the Help desk or reference desk, click on the edit link at the section header, delete all text of the section, fill in the edit summary and click save. - Mgm|(talk) 21:11, August 22, 2005 (UTC)

Mineral Spirit

-Would be appreciate yr advice: what is "Mineral Spirit" whether "Isopropyl alcohol"

Cartoon parody

hello i have something to add to the "YATTA" article

i created a new cartoon that is a parody of the music video its at

and also submitted to newgrounds

thanks i hope you add it

Editing a article

Say someones spent ages making an article. And some idiot deletes it all can you use any action to get the article back or take action against the person who deleted it all? -- User:

Just revert the article back to its previous good version and potentially also leave a note on user page of the editor causing the problem, asking them not to do it again. See your own talk page for example. -- Solipsist 17:53, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Well, if you go back and check the articles you ( vandalized, you will see that they have already been repaired by various people.
  • IP addresses or registered users who continually vandalize pages are banned from editing for a period of time. --GraemeL (talk) 17:59, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
    • Every revison of an article is stored (any hence can be retrieved) in the History (found by clicking on the "History" tab, just right of the "edit this page" tab). So if someone vandalises an artcile, you can revert it, and it will be back in its full glory. And yes, action can be taken agaist vandalism, take a look at dealing with vandalism --Commander Keane 05:49, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

Starting Wikiprojects

I am wondering how I would start a Wikiproject. I have searched the list and the FAQ, but have found nothing related to this.
(Sorry if I've asked a question already answered somewhere else.)
Johann Wolfgang 18:47, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:WikiProject. - IMSoP 20:31, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

finally formatted but cannot upload

I have finally formatted my paper on text grammars and gotten it to display properly. Now I can't get it to save. It is a long file, 39kb, but is a good analysis of a difficult topic and should be retained as a whole. What can be done?

I think you may need to clarify your problem:
  • By "paper" and "file", do you mean a proposed article on text grammar, or a revised version of grammar or some other existing article? Note that Wikipedia is not a web hosting provider, so your text will only be acceptable if it forms the text of an encyclopedia article.
  • When you say "can't get it to save", what exactly happens when you try? When you say "gotten it to display properly", I presume you mean when pressing "Preview"?
  • Are you trying to upload a text file directly? This is not possible, as only recognised image formats can be uploaded to Wikipedia (for use in illustrating articles). Instead, you need to edit the appropriate page and paste in your text (see Wikipedia:How to edit a page).
  • The size of an article should not be a problem - as you say, if it is a difficult topic, a long discussion may be needed.
My apologies if any of this comes across as condescending, I'm just trying to "cover all bases" and discover what the problem is. - IMSoP 20:29, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
I believe you were sucessfull - Text Grammars Alf 20:32, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
Oops, ignore me then. Although I'm going to move the page to text grammar to fit our naming conventions (which was why I didn't find it in the first place). - IMSoP 20:44, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

report abuse

Try Wikipedia:Vandalism in progress — Sverdrup 03:18, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

User page display problem (Resolved: however still interested to hear theories)

My user page is displaying (to me, at least) strangely. I use the old skin and the navigation list on the left is in a miniscule font as are some sections (though not all) of the text I've placed on the page. Everything else on Wikipedia seems fine, so it's not a browser setting and, anyway, some of the text seems fine.

I just went into edit mode with it and the preview seemed fine, so I cancelled, but then the problems returned. So I then tried editing and saving but it went bad then too.

Can others see what I'm seeing? Or does it look OK? I should warn that I make quite a lot of use of the "small" HTML tag, but it's always been a good size for reading even with those, now the text is so small the letters are dots .....

And anyway, a HTML tag couldn't effect the Wikipedia navigation links. Any help much appreciated.

Strangely an anonymous user visited my page recently and decapitalised the first words of my personal headings, but I can't detect anything more sinister than that. --bodnotbod 21:44, August 22, 2005 (UTC)

  • Update - I made another edit and it seems fine now. Still be interested to know if this is a known issue, or any theories as to cause. --bodnotbod 21:51, August 22, 2005 (UTC)
I'm afraid I can't reproduce the problem, even when viewing an old version, in the Classic skin. I can only think it was a glitch with your browser and/or the parser, which has now sorted itself out... - IMSoP 22:02, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Adding an image to an article

I added two images to a new article I added, titled:

Job-shop problem

As far as I can tell, I uploaded and specified the images correctly, but I can't get them to appear on either the preview or the normal view.

Pls help, A new user

martin oakes

If you haven't already, you might like to try the Wikipedia:Tutorial. Meanwhile, the problem on job-shop problem was just that you'd capitalised the filenames wrong: you'd uploaded them as "JobShopn.JPG" but referred to them in the page as "JobShopn.jpg". Somebody's fixed it now. - IMSoP 22:54, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Re Kim Campbell Bio

I was updating Ms Campbell's bio as I discovered some of it was not up to date, facts were incorrect and not neutral at all in the Political section. When I "saved" it I got a message from "Tiger Shark" saying he/she had deleted all my additions as he felt they were not neutral!

I read the article as being far from being neutral and wished to correct some of the facts.

This is very disappointing indeed. I expected better of this site. Facts only not editorial comments if you wish to stay neutral!!!!!


V Rich

  • You should discuss with the others on the article talk page. The goal is to provide a consensus between people as to what is the best Wikipedia:NPOV article. If one person puts very biased comments they are usually reverted. Elfguy 23:32, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
Reading the lines you added, it is indeed 2 paragraphs of information and a whole lot of POV material. I suggest you read up on what Wikipedia:NPOV means. Elfguy 23:35, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
Note that the "talk page" referred to here is the one linked by the "discussion" tab at the top of the page; in this case Talk:Kim Campbell. And I also agree that much of your edit wasn't at all neutral: for instance, the section beginning "The Somalia Affair is a scandal that will be fully exposed in coming years." is a combination of conjecture, opinion, and wishful thinking. I would also point out that the Club of Madrid is already mentionned in the next section of the article. - IMSoP 23:44, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Image names

I have uploaded an image to Wikipedia, but didn't correctly name it - how can I correct this? Mathieumcguire 00:18, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

There is no "rename" facility for images, so you will have to upload it again, providing a better name in the "destination filename" box, and then list the badly named version on Wikipedia:Images for deletion. - IMSoP 00:26, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Images on Wikipedia vs. Wikimedia Commons

I made and have all the 'township location within a county' maps up for Lycoming County, Pennsylvania (first) and Sullivan County, Pennsylvania too (second). The Lycoming Co. maps were uploaded and saved as png files on Wikipedia. However, I uploaded and saved the Sullivan Co. maps as png files on Wikimedia Commons as that is preferred.

Here are my questions: 1) Is it possible to easily move the Lycoming Co maps from Wikipedia to Wikimedia Commons? I like the mass upload capability there, but was not sure what would happen if I just uploaded the Lycoming Co maps again there. 2) Any suggestions on the categories for such maps Wikimedia commons? My eventual goal is to produce these maps for all of Pennsylvania and Ohio (and other states beyond, all as needed), so we are looking at a lot of map png files. 3) If a different category (say 'Maps of Lycoming County, Pennsylvania') is the recommended ideal, how do I make it and have it be a subcategory of 'Maps of Pennsylvania'?

There is no way to move images between projects. You will have to re-upload them. You should ask on Wikicommons what there naming patterns for categories are as they may differ from Wikipedia's. Rmhermen 02:43, August 23, 2005 (UTC)
OK< thanks, I will ask on Wikicommons too. Ruhrfisch 11:04, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks in advance, Ruhrfisch 02:27, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

Contributions don't show up

Although I have made contributions by editing articles other than my own, they are not showing up as "my contributions. Why not?

Beth Wellington (wiki_beth at yahoo dot com)

Perhaps you have not registered as a user, or, if you have, you are not currently logged in. Paul Klenk 03:35, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
Have you read Wikipedia:How_to_log_in#Log_in_problems? By looking at the history of the articles you have edited (the "history" tab), you should be able to see the changes you've made and how they are attributed. If the changes are there, and show up as having been made by an anonymous user (just an IP address number) the system thought you weren't logged in at the time. If your changes don't appear in the history, then something else is going on. -- Rick Block (talk) 03:44, August 23, 2005 (UTC)
  • You may also want to try to clear your browser's cache. - 07:50, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Image of Samson Raphael Hirsch

Allow me to present myself as the editor of a forthcoming volume in Hebrew on the history of the Jewish communities in north west Germany ('Pinkas Kehillot Germanya'). In this context, I'm looking for the original copyright holder of the image of Samson Raphael Hirsch published in the pertinent Wikipedia article. ("Hirsch, Samson Raphael")


Daniel Fraenkel

Jerusalem If you check the image description page of the image in question, you'll find Samson died in 1888 and the user who uploaded it, User:Jfdwolff, believes it to be in the public domain because of its age. If you want any further info regarding this image, it's best to ask this user on their own discussion page. - 07:54, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

how to rename the topic of a page

how do i rename the topic of a page?

You have to register and log in. Then you'll get a "Move" button which you can use to move pages. JIP | Talk 06:41, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Loading images into different language editions

Dear Friends:

I wonder if you could please tell me if there is a simple way to upload images so that they are easily available for articles in other languages?

I have been trying to translate articles into other languages but, so far, cannot find a way of using images I have already uploaded for the English edition - I have to upload them again separately for each language.

Is there a way around this time-wasting procedure?

Many thanks,

John Hill --John Hill 06:18, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

  • Yes, the Commons is great for your purpose. Once an image is uploaded there, any wiki project (incl. the various languages) will be able to access it. The site is here, just click on upload file (in the toolbox) once you are there. Good luck. --Commander Keane 06:52, August 23, 2005 (UTC)
  • Yes, but note they have stricter enforcement of guidelines with regard to copyright. Be sure you know their rules on that before uploading. - 07:55, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Copyright tags

Where do I type the copyright tag images if I'm uploading an image?

  • Just put the copyright tag in the summary. You can change it later if you need to. I agree that it's not clear on Special:Upload, someone should do something about that. --Commander Keane 07:17, August 23, 2005 (UTC)
  • You can also visit the image description page after uploading, click edit and add it. - 07:56, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
Enter the description of the image, then two carriage returns, and then the copyright tag. Most important is to make sure the tag is at the start of a line with no space(s) before it (otherwise it appears in a silly dotted line box and can wreck the line wrap on the page) - MPF 09:08, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Where can I find exapanded statistical information on Wikipedia progress, for example average number of articles addded per day?

You could take the date that the Wikipedia started, January 15, 2001 and the current count of articles which is shown on the main page and divide. That would get you the average per day. Dismas 08:41, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Have you had a look at this? Specifically the graph entitled "Articles - New articles per day". --Commander Keane 09:37, August 23, 2005 (UTC)


As you probably know history was written by the "winner". My question is: What if the winner was truly the personification of evil and now Wikipedia's greatest contribution will be remembered as what ended the affliction?

My opinion on the Bible controversy here (or there... as logic starts to melt into trancsendence ;)) at Wikipedia is that you SHOULD include the entirety of the most ancient and acurate texts of the Bible and in fact begin with FACTS to base the rest around. Sure many churches won't be happy, but then again its obvious there is a problem when our sacred institutions have been reduced to factions of moneygrubbers... Sounds like The Sacred has been forgotten.

At this very moment you are being called to do one of the most important duties the world will ever know. I tell you this in hopes that you will see the importance of Truth.

Some proponents of The Truth [unlike the truth you or I know] have realized [or been revealed to] the significance of great biblical finds in the ancient Levitical texts [Books of the Law] of the Torah. The Book of Exodus points in a direction that deserves some attention. Chapter 16 defines a small round substance or crust (cap?) that grows in a pattern like hoarfrost (stem?), which melts in the sun (fresh), tastes of honey (preservative), comes when the dew lifts, and will be a proving factor as to wether we will walk in Truth. It is white and flakey (crushed stem) and like corriander seed (cap?). Not only that, but any time it's around the glory of the lord apears! Upon critical inspection manna seems to be none other than the peace offering of the hippies: Psilocybe Cubensis.

Even "Christians" must contend... The name of The Savior (Yeshua) in the language he spoke, Hebrew, points in this direction in several ways. Firstly there is seven [Hebrew number seven: zen] "tops" in Yeshua's HOLY NAME. Why so holy? Second, and depending upon the first, why does Three Pillars of Zen define "manas" as the seventh state of consciousness? I think we have been lied to and I think we owe it to the world to set things straight.

File:Yeshua7.jpg The saviors name for you to SEE.

P.S. Many still think "What is it?" is Kosher. Once again another question: Why is it in the holiest of holies behind the SECOND veil/vail and inside the ARK OF THE COVENANT (Hebrews 9:4), If we don't get to find out when (Isaiah 30:25) Babylon has fallen, and the second veil breached (W Bush 2, WW2, WAR). My final question: What did Yeshua mean when he said ALL mysteries ("bread" which Yah's people know as Manna) have been revealed with HIS NAME???


If you read this in it's entirety You Have Been Chosen. May God('s true name) bless you.

No seriously, WTF do we do? (unsigned post by User:

Wow, now that's something, but I don't think you should have posted it here - this is for people who need help. --Doc (?) 09:07, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

  • First of all, FACT and BIBLE don't go together. The bible is nothing but a book written a very long time ago by some people who were in a cult which a fake prophet named Jesus was leading, same as so many fakers have done over the years. Now that's MY opinion, and while you are free to have YOUR opinion, it doesn't change a thing as to what Wikipedia is and should display. Information on our articles is Wikipedia:NPOV, based on facts, and presenting all recognized and supported views. But you are free to use a personal home site somewhere to display all that. Elfguy 12:32, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

If you want to argue about the reliability of the Bible, perhaps you could do it somewhere else. Meanwhile, the original poster did make one concrete proposal, which can be addressed:

My opinion ... at Wikipedia is that you SHOULD include the entirety of the most ancient and acurate texts of the Bible ....

Making such texts available is a fine idea, but Wikipedia is for encyclopedia aricles, not source texts (especially long ones). However, Wikipedia has a sister project, Wikisource, which is intended for such things. Source texts that fit within the licensing parameters of the project can be placed there and linked to from any Wikipedia article. Ancient Bible texts are in the public domain, so they would be quite appropriate (in fact, some of them may already be there). You can find Wikisource at . — Nowhither 18:25, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
    • This guy made edits such as this, which is nothing but POV rants, almost vandalism. He isn't fighting for a better representation of all parties, he has an agenda and wants it shown to everyone. It will never be proper for Wikipedia. Elfguy 18:59, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
Well, of course he has a highly POV agenda. That doesn't mean he can't have good ideas. And making Bible source texts available is a good idea. — Nowhither 18:47, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Although the contents of the Bible may not be in Wikipedia in a bulk package, it seems to be creeping in piecemeal. See Wikipedia:Merge/Bible verses. Zoe 07:20, August 27, 2005 (UTC)

Browser display of articles

A problem I've had on and off in the past viewing Wikipedia - sometimes, when a page loads, the background and left hand side appear as normal, but most of the article is 'missing', seamingly 'covered' by the footer. Once this starts happening for one page, it happens regularly. It seems like a browser kind of problem, but I really can't get to the bottom of whats causing it. Its very annoying! Grayum 09:06, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Featured pictures - larger versions

On the red panda nomination (1024x683 pixels) someone asked for a higher resolution while calling the existing one "acceptable". Since we won't anything larger than 200px we've already got more resolution than we really need, I don't understand such comments.

Can someone explain to be the obsession some people have with high-res images? - Mgm|(talk) 09:55, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

the theoretical posibilty of print versions. High res also makes it posible to make derivertive images of reasonable quality.Geni 11:44, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Isn't 1024x683 large enough for that?- 12:06, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Spam Picture???

Spam image

I keep seeing this picture around and it is starting to annoy me... It's this one and it has been posted in MANY articles:

Thanks, --X9billion 10:53, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

  • Are you sure it's that image and not one already uploaded with us? It appears, you've uploaded that pic and it's not linked anywhere but here. Can you give an example of where you've seen it?- Mgm|(talk) 11:20, August 23, 2005 (UTC)
  • The image has no copyright information and will have to be deleted. Elfguy 12:26, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

A page I have worked on has been blocked

I have been working on a page ( and tonight found it to be blocked as it appeared to have the same info as another web page ( Now at the bottom of the "skateflipper" page there is info saying that the above info was/is from wikipedia so how can MY info that I wrote for wiki be copied from the "skateflipper" info. How fo I go about un-blocking my page? I cant find a link to dispute the action that has been taken on my page. Thanks for any help and sorry if I have missed how to to what I want, Im still new to it all.

  • One of our editors saw they were the same and tagged it as a copyright violation. They seemed to have missed the note at the bottom saying it's a Wikipedia mirror. I've reverted it. Please check the Manual of style an article needs a lead explaining what the topic is about and summarize the article. - Mgm|(talk) 12:46, August 23, 2005 (UTC)
  • Correction: Elfguy was ahead of me and reverted. - Mgm|(talk) 12:46, August 23, 2005 (UTC)
  • You appear to be right and I have reverted it. Elfguy 12:48, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

show poles

Hi i was reading an artical and noticed that the show poles are now availble, where can i get one from please ?, if you can help.

Thank you chantelle contact me @

Hi Chantelle, so we can help you, can you let us know which article you were reading? Notinasnaid 12:45, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Also, please read the notice on top of this page and direct factual questions to the reference desk. - Mgm|(talk) 12:48, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

Interwiki & Interlanguage Images

How does one include an image from a different wiki and/or language? all combinations of "Image" and language prefixes don't seem to work.

It is not possible and this is a large limitation especially for wikipedia. Wikimedia Commons was created to solve this; any wiki can include images if they are uploaded to the commons (just specify the name without any interlanguage prefixes, and it works). But you still have to download the image and reupload it to either this wiki or the Commons (commons is highly preferred, when it's not fair use images) to use the image here. — Sverdrup 14:29, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Another image problem


I'm having a bit of difficulty in hosting an image on a Wiki page. The frame fo it is in place, and the caption is fine, just I can't get the image to link from the uploaded file. I think I have done everything correctly (though it's inevitable that I haven't!).

It's on this page about O'Connell Street in Dublin.'Connell_Street

You can see the grey frame about halfway down the page that is supposed to host an image of a statue, but clearly isn't working! If anyone could glance over the link I've typed and see if I've made an error I'd be most grateful - it's driving me nuts at this stage!

Kind regards,


23rd August 2005

I fixed the problem: it was exactly like another some sections above: Adding an image to an article. The image filenames are case sensitive, and the correct name of the file you uploaded was "Image:Sir John Gray.JPG", with JPG in caps. By the way, by "no copyright implications" do you mean fully Public domain (no restrictions) or CC-BY / GFDL (Users have to mention your name)? — Sverdrup 15:54, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your help Sverdrup, much appreciated. And yes I'll clarify the copyright situation.

Thanks again,


Standardising football club squad lists

There are (at least) two methods in use of specifying the current squad list of football (soccer) clubs in use, e.g. Arsenal F.C.#Current squad versus Manchester United F.C.#Current squad. The second contains more information, but is obviously harder to write and edit. It would probably be a good idea to standardise on a single method, but I think there should be a discussion of which between interested parties somewhere first. Where should that somewhere be? -- Deadlock 14:45, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Go to the talk page for football (soccer). At the top you'll see a notice telling you where to discuss such things. — Nowhither 18:32, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
(Slaps forehead) Of course! Obvious really, thanks. — Deadlock 09:31, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Questions and Questionable Designations

There is a difficulty with remarks about VANDALISM. I am not a VANDAL, they deceased many centuries ago. I have been vandalized and attempted to be blamed for sandboxing in an improper way with 'depth of double entendre'.

ALL THAT I ATTEMPT is not to invasive WIKIPEDIA, and violate its informative procedures which was explained to me many months ago by an EXECUTIVE INVOLVED WITH HELICOPTERS. He is often concerned about invasives which don't occur in Wikipedia!

My screenname today is AURELIA 90 and I'm not a VALKYRIE also. Those in the 21st century are motorcycles not WORD CHOPPERS. And I don't chop words, opinion in pin yin and salades! I don't consider myself involved in all sets and parameters of the non-specific IP location address.

As I tried to indicate many times, I've been vandalized and my computer was misplugged during a thunderstorm with lightning which rolled electricity three times before lights went out. That was last year before hurricane season, and I'm not implying a song in reference to HURRICANES. I DIDN'T MISPLUG MY COMPUTER ON BACK OF MODEM BECAUSE OF COLOR BLINDNESS. THE COMPUTER BECAME DESTROYED! Because a triumverate of questionable identities decided they wanted my home for their persons. I don't consider their actions a mess on me to commiserate with the JEWISH PROBLEM of the SETTLERS. They're being removed from their homes is atrocious, because when they are carried their butty rumps could appear rude. GOOD LUCK GOD BLESS AND DON'T ADDRESS ME AS A BAUXITE VANDAL! Maybe we shall discuss again.

  • Can you try this again in english? Elfguy 15:47, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Your IP address ( is part of the range used by AOL, which is also often used by people who like to deface Wikipedia articles or otherwise cause problems. Because of the inner workings of AOL, you may get assigned an IP previously used by someone to vandalize Wikipedia. As a result messages on User talk: may not all be aimed at you personally. There's no way for us to make a distinction between you and anyone else using that IP unless you register an account. - Mgm|(talk) 16:04, August 23, 2005 (UTC)
  • Karl Malbrain, is that you? JIP | Talk 04:36, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Adam Smith

I'm not sure if this is the right place to direct my request, but I was reading the Adam Smith entry and noticed no mention of the influence of Stoicism on his thought. I wondered if someone could edit the article so as to mention the importance of Stoicism to his ideas, and create a link to more info on the Stoics.

Thanks, Eve D'Onofrio

This page ofcourse draw attention to the article, but the correct spot would be to put suggestions at the talk page Talk:Adam Smith. If you don't want to wait for someone to implement your ideas, you can always dive in and edit the article yourself. — Sverdrup 15:57, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

VfDing a page that replaces an existing title (tangled edit history)?

FEA was a disambiguation page, but someone has replaced it with something entirely different. I suspect that the new content (and several related pages, see Lanz Chan and links from that page) should be put up for VfD as vanity/advertising, but now the edit histories of the old and new content are mixed up. How do I untangle the history and/or put up the new content for VfD while keeping the old content? --IByte 16:07, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

No need to VfD -- I simply reverted to the previous version. The new version, as well as wiping out a proper disabig page, was a copyvio from the home page of the Financial Economics Association. I am looking to see if I should create Financial Economics Association. DES (talk) 16:28, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
This has happened numerous times before. Someone replaced Hair extensions with a blatant advertisement. Someone replaced Emo, strangely, with a personal letter addressed to his personal acquitance Dr. Mutlu. Someone replaced the Star Wars article Proton Torpedo with an article about a little-known band. I've personally settled the last one by having the Star Wars weapon at Proton torpedo and the band at Proton Torpedo. JIP | Talk 18:43, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Current Events page seems to be hacked

I am not sure if this is true, but on accessing your current events page, most of it has been altered to read "ANUS ANUS MY ANUS IS BLEEDING". I assume this is not a joke but the product of an actual hacker.

See Dealing with vandalism. The offending text has already been removed. --IByte 16:42, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )

This user is clearly serious-minded, with an interest in biography and geneology, but he seems to have an odd opinion of what Wikipedia is. He has a large family history user page with numerous photos and has created a number of articles about dead people who don't seem to have done anything notable (John Hans Makeléer, Mary Ellis of New Brunswick, Jarvis Andrew Lattin). I hesitate to casually start marking his work with VfDs (altho it appears that one was deleted; the link is red), but I'm concerned that he is turning Wikipedia into his own personal geneology website. He has also added photos and created similar articles on Commons about people who are not at all notable (commons:Nora_Belle_Conklin). I have not contacted him; I'd like input from the community. --Tysto 17:47, 2005 August 23 (UTC)

  • Just welcome him with a friendly note and point them to WP:NOT and ask for explanations why the people he made articles about are famous or important. - Mgm|(talk) 18:31, August 23, 2005 (UTC)
  • This user has been here for years, and the articles I looked at survived over a year and are all non-stubs. I'd say they are botherline on vanity, at least they are all military, Drs, etc.. If you see one about someone who hasn't accomplished anything notorious and does not give many google hits then hit it with a vfd. Elfguy 18:47, 23 August 2005 (UTC)


Is it possible to make an Interlanguage link or an Interwikimedia link to an image? Is it possible to make such a link to a template? -- Reinyday

  • If you take a look at the images over at the commons, you see linking to a picture in other language is possible. But since all code from a template gets included in an article, adding interwikis to templates is NOT a good idea as they would appear as an interwiki to the template instead of the article on articles it's used on. - Mgm|(talk) 18:34, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

Looking for WP policy/guideline page

I'm looking for the Wikipedia policy/guideline page that says something like "Avoid using including primary info", or something like that. Like, in an article about a certain law, don't just paste the actual text of the law into the article. Or did I just dream up that page? :p Coffee 19:07, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

You're probably looking for Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not. Section 1.5–Wikipedia is not a mirror or a repository of links, images, or media files– applies:
"...Mere collections of public domain or other source material such as entire books or source code, original historical documents, letters, laws, proclamations, and other source material that are only useful when presented with their original, un-modified wording. Complete copies of primary sources should go into Wikisource..."
So no, you weren't dreaming. :D TenOfAllTrades(talk) 19:17, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

About a article

Wikipedia, My name is Gil Scatena, i'm from Brazil and and i've noted a error in the informations about 'Politics of Brazil' because in the informations of : Political Parties in Brazil have a brutal error. In the Box of Political Parties, ideology and number have a wrong information: that box put the PSDB (Partido da Social-Democracia Brasileira- Party of the Brazilian Social-Democracy) in the political spectre of Center-Right and its wrong!Because the Party is the most and important Center-Left Party.I try to erase e put the correct information in the box, but returns to Center- right.What can I do to put the right information? Thanks Gil Scatena

If you think changes are necessary to a specific article like, Politics of Brazil, then the best place to discuss them are at the articles talk page which can be found by clicking the discussion link at the top of that articles page. Or click this link - Talk:Politics of Brazil. --Dismas 21:30, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

50 States and 1 district ?

Can you explane the reason to me for we have 50 states and 1 district ? Thank you. Robin.

  • We? Who's this we. I don't. But you should really have asked to Wikipedia:Reference desk which hopefully has nicer people to answer you. Elfguy 20:23, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Actually, we have 6 districts (Southern, Eastern, Western, Oulu, Lapland and Åland). JIP | Talk 04:29, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
  • That all depends on where you live and since Wikipedia is an international effort, you'll have to be more specific if you want a useful answer. - 07:10, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Are you referring to the District of Columbia in USA, in which several states gave up some pieces of themselves so the capital city of the nation could be not part of one of the 50 states? AlMac|(talk) 07:57, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
    • Well, two states did, Virginia and Maryland, but Virginia got her land back. Zoe 07:37, August 27, 2005 (UTC)


sorry but a would like to say could you please put download in your web site so people who r a member get to get thing out of it as well because we put uploads in your web site so i think we should get something back return like downloads please hope you agree with me on this thank you for your time Ben2daG

  • I'm not sure what you think this site is, but we're an encyclopedia, made by thousands of volunters, no one forces you to contribute. Our reward is to see Wikipedia grow. But here's a cookie for your efforts. Elfguy 20:53, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Some people are also awarded Wikipedia:Barnstars for their efforts. Exactly what kind of downloads were you thinking off? - 07:12, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

3rr on talk

Hi. Can I be blocked for 3rr on my own talk page? Can another user be blocked for 3rr on my talk page? This is NOT a 3rr report, and I specifically give anyone who did 3rr on my talk page the right to 3rr (just this once) my talk page. Please don't block anyone. Thanks! Hipocrite 21:40, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

it depends. There has been some debate over this and no firm conclusion reach. My adv9ice would be to make sure you don't become a test case.Geni 00:08, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
Thanks, however much that answer blows :). Clearly need resolution. Hipocrite 00:24, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Three-revert_rule states "User pages: The 3RR is generally not enforced against editors reverting changes to their own user page space, on the principle that your user space is yours (for project-related purposes)." Wikipedianinthehouse 23:33, August 24, 2005 (UTC)

When and how to split an article?

Hi, I was planning to write a quick article outlining Edward Young's Night Thoughts on Life, Death, and Immortality (we get the phrase "procrastination is the thief of time" from it), however the author article has a considerable amount of information on the poem already (probably taken from the 1911 Encyc. Brit.). What is the appropriate course of action?

  • move the information on Night Thoughts to its own page, flesh it out, and leave a basic outline on the author page
  • copy the information over and leave it on the author page as well
  • de-link Night Thoughts
  • redirect Night Thoughts to Edward Young

Thanks, Ziggurat 22:18, August 23, 2005 (UTC)





You have to first upload the image, please see Wikipedia:Uploading_images. BTW - can you please turn caps lock off? Mixed case, or even all lower case is much easier to read. You can also sign your entries on talk pages and help pages like this by typing four tildes (like this ~~~~). -- Rick Block (talk) 22:48, August 23, 2005 (UTC)
Incidentally, please make sure that the image is in the public domain or available under a suitable free license (the GFDL, for example) before uploading it. In general, most of the pictures that you find on Google will not meet those criteria. We cannot accept copyrighted images on Wikipedia without appropriate permission from the image creator(s). If the image that you're trying to upload is from, the photo is from the Associated Press wire service, and not suitably licensed for Wikipedia. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 23:05, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Many articles, one set of references - How to do it

I have a number of articles, all of which will use the same set of references. Is there any way to point to an editable set of references, rather than entering the references into each article, and then editing each article if those references need changing? Thanks PAR 22:43, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Argh, WP doesn't really have a precedence for this sort of thing that I'm aware of. I vaguely remember a discussion similar to this a year or so ago (not much help). WP certainly has a history of lists upon lists upon lists, so maybe My topic (list of references) or List of references for my topic wouldn't be completely out of line, although I'm not that comfortable with those suggestions. You could create a template containing the text, so that you'd just put {{myTemplateName}} in the approriate articles, but since that's so opaque to anyone who wants to edit that, you'd also need to add a link like "To edit this list of references, go [[Template:myTemplateName|here]]." I hope someone has better ideas or examples of similar existing stuff. Elf | Talk 02:16, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
  • If made into a list it probably would contain a lot of external links which would prompt people to ask for its deletion. And there isn't really precedent to transclude stuff in the main article namespace into other articles. I'd go with an appropriately named template like Topic references or something. - 07:16, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Colors and Boxes like on the main page

i have my own wiki (gunWIki) and am trying to make the system pages more appealing - how can I make colored boxes and half-width like on the main page here? I just cant figure out colors ^^ Please help!

  • Actually the left column is slightly bigger than the right one 55% to 45% IIRC. Have you looked at the source of our main page? It may be protected from editing, but you can still read the code by clicking on the "view source" tab. - 07:18, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Patriot Act

Moved to Wikipedia:Reference desk.

Copyright tagging help...

Hi, I'm a total newb when it comes to Wikipedia. I need help. I've been recieving messages from people telling me that my image needs to be tagged with some sort of copyright code or something. I found them, but I don't have a clue which one to use. Here is the current situation:

I have permission from the owner of the picture to copy it from the website where it was originally posted. The website is from the USA, if that makes any difference. I need to know WHICH code to use, and WHERE to put it. Sorry to be sooo needy.

If they are releasing it to the public domain then you would use {{PD-release}}. If they are releasing it under the GFDL then you would use {{GFDL}}. If they say you can use it for the article but are retaining the copyright then you would use {{CopyrightedFreeUse}}
Also, please sign your posts with four tildes (like ~~~~) Dismas 01:04, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
Copyrights are a bit confusing and so are WP images. I'm condensing shamelessly, but basically public domain means that anyone can do whatever they want with it; GFDL means that they have to give credit to the source of the photo and I think there are some restrictions on it probably (like you can't use it to commit a crime), but I'm not positive about that. Any license involving a copyright means that use is severely restricted in some way or other. All text in WP is released under GFDL, so it's absolutely best if images could be at least as free as GFDL or even PD.
To apply the tag, you go to the image's description page, which is what you get when you double-click on an image in an article where you've placed it. Then you edit that page just like you would any other page, inserting the special text as Dismas noted above ({{GFDL}} or whatever). Hope this helps some. Elf | Talk 02:26, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
A handful of useful references and guidelines for anyone who wants to add an image to Wikipedia...
  1. Wikipedia:Copyright FAQ and Wikipedia:Contributing FAQ
  2. Wikipedia:Copyrights
  3. Wikipedia:Image copyright tags is the complete list of image license tags. (If you want to upload an image but are unsure about what tag to use, ask back here. Sometimes we have to create new tags.)
  4. Wikipedia:Boilerplate request for permission has some sample boilerplate text that you can use to request permission to use images or text on Wikipedia.
Those should get you started. :) TenOfAllTrades(talk) 02:47, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
This is good stuff but I will add an extra emphasis: permission to use a picture on Wikipedia is not enough. You must obtain a specific release of the picture, either to public domain or GFDL. This will allow the use of the picture on an unlimited number of sites, and in print etc, so you see that just asking "can I use this on Wikipedia" is not enough. Notinasnaid 07:16, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Race date

Moved to Wikipedia:Reference desk.

Geelong College, Geelong, Victoria, Australia

To who it may concern,

When I search for the Associated Public Schools of Victoria, Australia (APS) there are eleven schools listed, each one has a link to detailed information on the history etc. of that school.

The only School without a link is The Geelong College. I was wondering please, why this is? (considering how prestigous Geelong College is compared to many of the other APS schools and it has no link to information)

Could you please respond by e-mail to

Best Regards,

John Oxley

Sorry, we don't generally respond to emails; we respond here (see top of page). Wikipedia is written entirely by volunteers who come to this site, see that there's information missing, and click the "Edit this page" link to add information about something that they know something about or that they've researched. So if no one has come along to edit that article (say, yourself), then it remains sparse. Elf | Talk 04:04, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Procedure / Contact

I have noticed some factual errors / bad links in Wikipedia. How do I bring them to the attention of the staff?



When you feel an article needs changing, please feel free to make whatever changes you feel are needed. Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit any article by simply following the Edit link. You don't even need to log in! (Although there are some reasons why you might like to...) The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes—they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or try out the sandbox to try out your editing skills. New contributors are always welcome. --cesarb 04:10, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
In other words, you are the "staff"!  :) Dismas 04:12, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
To make notes about certain articles, use their respective Talk page; each article's talk page is found by clicking the "discussion" tab at the top of the article. — Sverdrup 12:22, 24 August 2005 (UTC)


How does one create an archive into which to move old content from a talk page? I can't find anything on the help pages, style guides, etc. Jimp 24Aug05

Here's what I do: add the link into the page FIRST and then Show preview so that you can click on the link. E.g., [[Talk:Fooarticle/Archive 1]]. Elf | Talk 14:04, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks, Elf. I'll give it a try. Jimp 26Aug05

Updating images

OK, so the link on an Image page labeled "Upload a new version of this file" does not allow you to overwrite a file with a new, corrected version of the image? (And yes, I was logged in when I was making the attempt.) So what is that link and the accompanying form for??? And, does this mean I'll have to create a new image file and link the article to that? Help! :-( 09:06, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

  • Some questions for clarification:
  1. If you upload a picture with the exact same name (watch capitalization!), isn't it overwritten?
  2. Have you purged your cache to see if the change is delayed?
  3. What image are you referring to? - Mgm|(talk) 09:17, August 24, 2005 (UTC)

No, :-( yes, and

To be specific, I want the 5th (bottom) row gone, so I saved the image and edited it, same filename, tried to upload( twice), but it won't overwrite it. What am I doing wrong? 09:28, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

  • Your first upload did take, but you needed to bypass the cached version of the image. It should now be changed. Why did you want the bottom row deleted to begin with? - Mgm|(talk) 10:55, August 24, 2005 (UTC)
-/ I did, several times. Oh well. I edited the image because the 5th example wasn't nearly as important as the other 4, and didn't really merit inclusion in that particular article. Having edited the relevant section, and the caption, it was kind of silly to still have the 5 items in the image. 13:39, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

List of Historical Anniversaries for August 24th

I wasn't sure where to put this question/comment. It appears that the contents for August 24th historical anniversaries was deleted.

The Cepheus Star

  • Are you are talking about the vandalism on the August 24 article? User:Olivier was ahead of you and undid the changes [2]. If you want to learn how to do that, try searching for "revert" in our help pages. - 12:12, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Page has been hacked

Your August 24 page has apparently been hacked - or at least modified in an unauthorized way.......

Barbara Wyatt

It's not really hacking per se since anyone can edit any of the articles, including you. See Wikipedia:Vandalism for more info. But thanks for the heads up, it's been fixed. Dismas 12:57, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Where did my editing changes go?


I made editing changes to "Jersey City, New Jersey" and Samuel J. LeFrak yesterday afternoon.

The changes did "take" and were still there last night.

Today changes on both pages are gone?

Please reply as soon as you can.

Thanks! Linda Wilk

  • At Jersey City, New Jersey, User:SPUI removed it as he felt the text you added contained too much marketing language. Still, he's invited you to re-add it if you clean up the language. Either take it up at Talk:Jersey City, New Jersey or contact SPUI personally to work out the details. You can click the "history" tab on articles to examine what happened to your edits. - 13:21, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
In reference to the article on Samuel J. LeFrak, are you talking about this edit? If so, it was changed because of a copyright violation. I suspect your other edit was reverted for similar reasons. Dismas 13:23, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Alleged "Vandalism"

I have been unjustly stopped without warning from editing the spanish version of the entry for Gibraltar. This page contains several false and inflamatory items, such as suggesting that it is a haven for money laundering & drug smuggling, accusaions which are levelled at Gibraltar from time to time from spain, but which have no basis whatsoever in fact. I have been banned by someone called "JorgeGG", and it is suggested that I may contact him to discuss this. I have no idea how to do this nor can I find any information to help. Could you please inform me how to contact this person? Many thanks

  • You should check the help pages on that wikipedia, and see how to contact another administrator, to provide your case and ask to be unblocked. Elfguy 14:42, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks, but I can't work out how to contact any administrator, every time I click anything it just tells me I'm banned from doing so......and suggests I contact "JorgeGG", but with no explanation on how to do so.

Looking at the translation by google of the page it would appear that while the original verson my be slightly POV your was more so. Your block should expire shortly (it was only for 2 hours). I would suggest aiming to follow NPOV more closely if you wish to try again.Geni 15:46, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Lawsuit of copyright image

Is wikipedia ever received a lawsuit for using a copyrighted images? roscoe_x 14:45, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

  • Why sue when it takes 2mins to tag it as illegal and get it removed? Elfguy 15:32, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
No. We anything suspicious about an image and it goes out, btw. — Sverdrup 22:36, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

who discovered helium

Factual questions should be directed to the Reference desk, this page is for questions about Wikipedia. You will however find the answer to your question by reading the Helium article. Thryduulf 15:50, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

This is a factual question; please ask all future questions at the reference desk. However, I'll bet the article on helium knows. If it doesn't, I'd be very surprised. --Andy Janata ps edit crossing, watch out!

how do i reference a wikipedia

  • See Wikipedia:Citing Wikipedia which is mentioned at the top of this page. Can you tell me how we could make this more visible? We get this question a lot. - Mgm|(talk) 16:15, August 24, 2005 (UTC)
  • Even in big red blinking letters people would not read it. Elfguy 17:03, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

JMR Band

I have tried to edit your article on JMR Band, but have been unable to do so. Can you help me? Thank you.


  • You seem to have edited something related to that band [3]. If you don't get the wikicoding to work, you may want to read Wikipedia:How to edit a page. If another problem is keeping you from editing what you want you'll have to be more specific in your question. What is it that isn't working? - Mgm|(talk) 16:20, August 24, 2005 (UTC)
  • Can you provide information that shows this band meets the guidelines at WP:MUSIC? - Mgm|(talk) 16:30, August 24, 2005 (UTC)

Digital Camera Question

Hi, My nanme is Dragomir I am from Bulgaria and I have a litel problem :) I have a digital kamera HP R 717 I want to know, can I use PNY 1GB Compact Flash (CF) Card Model P-CF1G-RF3 or I have to use only SD cards?

This is a factual question, not a question about Wikipedia, and so should be at the Reference desk, not here. However, a quick google search shows that that model of camera only supports SD and MMC cards. You cannot use a CF card. Thryduulf 17:09, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

FireFox and layers problem

I designed the site, and it works great in IE but for whatever reason the "labels" (layers with the football club's crest and club info text) get messed up in FireFox. You can see the problem if you pull the site up in both browsers. In FireFox, grab the right side of the browser window and move left and right and you'll see what I'm talking about. After some troubleshooting, the best I can come up with is that I need to force the width: #px attribute of the div tag to some value, in order to get FireFox to "honor" the layer's horizontal dimension. But I specifially did not want to set the width attribute cuz my site is database-driven and each label is of different lengths, solely depending on how wide the address of the club's name and stadium info is. The text is obviously proportional font, so I can't programatically determine just how wide the label will be based on the length of the text. This is an interesting one. Maybe I can create the layers and then after the fact set the width attribute based on the actual width of the layer? But can I even do this? Maybe it's a dern chicken and egg problem. Thanks very much for all who can offer some insight into this. UPDATE: I've fixed the problem. I had to hard set the width attribute of the div tags for non-IE browsers and it now works. Check it out.

Wikipedia 700,000

Will the 700,000th article be announced officially, eg on the main page? --Valkov 18:08, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

bug in the Sinead O'Connor article

When I (try to) save the Sinéad O'Connor article in Internet Explorer (Windows XP) it doesnt save in HTML.

But if I try, instead, to save in .mht format:

When I open it from my hard disk the page appear, but with the following message instead of the content: "Theres no SinCAd OConnor article, you can: edit it, creat it, etc" (more or less this message).

Can anyone confirme me and help?

Why are some sites allowed to be listed in external links, and others not?

I added an external link that is highly relevant to a topic, and it was deleted as spam. Why are some external links allowed, and others not? Are editors allowed to even add links or will they always be deleted?

Please see Wikipedia:External links; generally, unless a site adds to the quality of the article, the link will be removed. After all, Wikipedia is not a site merely to link to every related website. However, if you feel that a link will enhance the article, please be bold and add it. Please be warned, though, not to add massive amounts of links to one website; this will be viewed as spam. Happy editing! Flcelloguy | A note? | Desk 20:12, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
Also, unless the site is someone's official site, pay sites are generally not listed. A good example of this is most of the official sites for porn stars which are generally pay sites but since it's the person's official site, it gets listed. If it were just some guy's site who's trying to make a dime off Wikipedia, it would get cut. Dismas 20:52, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Renaming a user

I just renamed user:음낭 to user:Eum Nang. Where do I go to check whether I did this correctly? Is there a Bureaucrats Chat page, or something? Uncle Ed, Bureaucrat. 20:02, August 24, 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia toolbar

This is rather a request then a question. Please make a toolbar similar to what Google offers. Thanks.

Such a toolbar is already available under the name WikiSearch_Toolbar. Grumpy Troll (talk) 20:13, 24 August 2005 (UTC).
Or use the extensible search box of Mozilla Firefox. --IByte 20:19, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
The firefox wikipeida-toolbar search box stopped working for me about 2 months ago - back when server problems seemed to be a daily issue. It takes me to a page within Wikipedia that says "search is disabled for performance reasons" [4] The search bar along the left-hand side of Wikipedia still works for me as normal. Is this problem unique to me, or are other Firefox users experiencing the same thing? Johntex 16:03, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

How to get listed in edu-directory

We would like to be listed in the edu-directory site of business and technical schools. How do we go about this. We are located in New York State - one of our competitors is listed there, but we are not....we are licensed by NYS Dept. of Education. Can you please advise? Thank you. Gloria K School, 500 Northern Blvd., Great Neck, NY 11021. Tel. (516) 482-2323.

  • We are not a listing directory but an encyclopedia and therefore do not list businesses or schools for promotional means. Please see our welcome message and the article we have about ourselves at wikipedia for further details. - Mgm|(talk) 20:42, August 24, 2005 (UTC)

Moving articles

how can i move articles to a different location?

You must create an account in order to move pages. It's actually quite simple to create an account, and I encourage you to do so. All you need is a user name and password; no email required! Once you create an account, there will be a "move" tab at the top of every article. I hope you join us! Flcelloguy | A note? | Desk 21:41, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
  • It's still a good idea to enter a password, as it's the only way to retrieve a missing password, in the event you forget it. - 21:46, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
You mean email, don't you? Flcelloguy | A note? | Desk 21:49, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
Please note that brand-new created Users cannot move articles, there is a very slight lag built into the system to prevent move vandalism. Zoe 22:37, August 24, 2005 (UTC)

How do you send a message (as a registered wikipedia member) to another registered wikipedia member?

How do you send a message (as a registered wikipedia member) to another registered wikipedia member?

You can go to member's talk page and edit the page. This will make a "You have new messages" bar light up the next time the user logs in. In addition, you can also email another user, provided that you have put a valid email address in your preferences, and that he has also done so. Click "email this user" in the toolbox in the left-hand side when you visit the user page. Flcelloguy | A note? | Desk 22:10, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

US vs. U.S.

I know that if you're going to abbreviate United States you should put periods after each letter as in U.S. The rule for this can be found in the MoS. But if it's part of something like US Army or similar compound noun then the general rule is not to insert the periods but I can't find in the Wikipedia guidelines where it says that. I know I've read it somewhere... but where? Anyone? Dismas 23:12, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

I found it at the same page you cite above (MoS). However, please note that it is disputed. The page says "(disputed — see talk page) When abbreviating United States, please use "U.S."; that is the more common style in that country, is easier to search for automatically, and we want one uniform style on this. When referring to the United States in a long abbreviation (USA, USN, USAF), periods should not be used. When including the United States in a list of countries, do not abbreviate the United States. (e.g. "France and the United States", not "France and the U.S."). Johntex 16:50, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Fastest way to see how many edits you've made. (SOLVED)

There used to be a trick to finding out how many edits you'd made by looking at your contributions and playing with the offset in the URL.

I'm guessing that the URL now contains data pertaining to the new drop-down that allows you to see subcategories of your edits, which means I can't figure out how to do the old trick any more. Anyone able to help? --bodnotbod 23:17, August 24, 2005 (UTC)

    • Oooh! That's amazing (both the tool and your speed at replying)! Ta! --bodnotbod 23:26, August 24, 2005 (UTC)

A photo on Wikimedia Commons seems to have been overruled by a photo uploaded directly to Wikipedia -- help!

Hello all-

I uploaded the photo here [5] to the Wikimedia commons for an article I did on Charles Village, a Baltimore neighborhood. The photo is of Guilford Street.

Today, someone uploaded this photo [6] of Lorne Calvert to, I'm guessing, Wikipedia, not the Commons. The two have the same filename -- Calvert.jpg. Now the image link on the Charles Village shows Mr. Calvert rather than Calvert St. (Or at least it did -- I commented it out pending the resolution of this issue.)

What's the best way to deal with this? Should I re-upload the photo to the commons and give it a more specific name? Should I contact the user who uploaded the second photo? Is there a syntax for making sure an image referenced comes from the commons? Aren't we supposed to be uploading all media to the commons anyway? Help! --Jfruh 00:57, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

To answer the questions I know the answer to: "That sucks", "I think only GFDL and CC media should go on commons" and "The software really should warn when uploading an image that will mask, just like it does when uploading a new revision" (ok, so the last question was implied). --fvw* 01:01, August 25, 2005 (UTC)
I might offer you a clue on how you might be able to solve this problem: Have you ever found an image where Template:Isd was needed on it? Zzyzx11 (Talk) 03:33, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
Sorry to be obtuse, but I don't see how it relates. The problem is not a duplicate image; the problem is that there is a new, different image with the same file name. I don't want to just barge in and delete the new image because now there's an article that links to it. --Jfruh 03:40, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

I would suggest you reupload the new image, as it has fewer links to it than the commons one. Just reupload it under a different name, then fix the link. You can contact the original uploader too, if you like. JesseW 20:03, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

Naming "Treaty no. 8"

I have an article naming problem that I can't find anything about in the naming conventions. I want to write an article about "Treaty No. 8", that is, "The eighth treaty between the Indians of North America and the Queen of England", signed in 1899 & 1900. (By the way, anyone doubting the signficance of this topic should take a look at sites like .) Now, what should this article be called?

  • Treaty no. 8
  • Treaty number 8
  • Treaty #8 (no, "#" isn't good)
  • Treaty number eight

Of course, all of those may be unacceptable, since there are probably treaties numbered 8 in other parts of the world. Maybe it should be "Treaty no. 8 (North America)" or "Treaty no. 8 (Canada)". Shoot, maybe there is already a Wikipedia article about this, and I just haven't looked under the right title. So, what should I do? — Nowhither 00:58, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

I have never heard of this treaty before, so I can't tell you exactly, but if "Treaty No. 8" is both unambigious (for the most time) and the most common name of the topic, then name it so. From what I can see are there no other treaties that use to be called "Treaty No. 8" (that many treaties may be no 8 is no matter, as long as only one is really known for being Treaty No. 8 :). — Sverdrup 03:16, 25 August 2005 (UTC)


Is this statement true? Many years ago in Scotland, a new game was invented. It was ruled "Gentlemen Only...Ladies Forbidden"...and thus the word GOLF entered into the English language.

Regards Leanne Baker Albany, Western Australia

Really, Snopes is a better place to find your answer... [7] As you can see from the link, it's false. Dismas 02:05, 25 August 2005 (UTC)


Does Fula have any official status in Mauritania, Senegal, Mali, Guinea, Burkina Faso, Niger, Nigeria, Cameroon, or Gambia as claimed on the Fula page? On the pages for the countries listed above Fula is not listed as an official language. Zntrip 03:29, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

Template coding help

If their is anyone out their that has a lot of experience with template coding, perfer some one with advance knowledge, if they could just drop me a line on my talk page. I am trying to develope something, though i am coming to the conclusion that with te current parameters it cant be done. Thanks in advance. --Boothy443 | comhrÚ 03:41, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

Starting a new printing press

Dear Sir, Kindly help me to prepare a project report for new printing press. Please let me know what are the points I have to include there and what are important areas to mention on that report. With best reagrds,

Roshan William

My email no is

  • An encyclopedia is a great resource for self study. Take a look at printing press to start with. Notinasnaid 07:27, 25 August 2005 (UTC)


Jieux we bouch pe or jeux we bouch pe. what does this mean?

How Could I send an automated email?

How Could I send an automated email?

  • What would it say? Notinasnaid 07:24, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

External links spam — what to do

What should I do if I found other Wikipedians adding external links that violated Wikipedia external links policy (e.g., spamlinks, ads, etc.) periodically to articles (that reverting the edit might be fruitless [and a waste of revert "privilege"] anyway, since tomorrow or a few days later they would add the links again)? Where could I report them? Thanks.

  • Bring is up at the discussion page of the article in question. Also, it may be a good idea if you mentioned the article name here, so others could have a look at it. - Mgm|(talk) 07:46, August 25, 2005 (UTC)
The articles: Quest for Glory (the link:, and Leisure Suit Larry (the link: All of the links were added by user For over several months, the link had been added (by him) and removed (by me) several times, until I became fed up and stopped removing them few months ago. What should I do, then? (if I removed the link today, he might add it tomorrow) Could I get the user blocked?
  • Since his IP seems static, have you tried posting on their talk page to explain why the links aren't approriate? If they do it again without discussion after being warned, a block is certainly possible. (Please sign your comments with 4 tildes like this ~~~~ so I know who you are). - Mgm|(talk) 08:40, August 25, 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for the info 09:03, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

commercial organisation

I have been asked by my employer to write some web pages as an introduction to England for staff who may like to work within England for the NHS.

I have written some brief information, but also provided a link to the Wikipedia page on England as it is exactly the sort of information overseas recruits would need.

I have been told that my employer can not provide links to any 'commercial organisations' on our website as it is seen as endorsing them.

Is Wikipedia such a 'commercial organisation'? What arguments could I use to convince them otherwise? I know it is a not for profit organisation, but apparantly that definition is not always enough.



  • No, Wikipedia is completely run on volunteers and money is only involved to ensure the upkeep of the site. Also, Wikipedia content is free too, so there's nothing remotely commercial about it. Of course, linking to any site can be seen as an endorsement, so you may have a clause included that goes something like "You are now leaving our site. <Our company> is not responsible for the content provided by this third source and does not endorse it." The best test is to give your employer a link to wikipedia to peruse themselves and get an answer straight from himself. - Mgm|(talk) 08:44, August 25, 2005 (UTC)

Top CPG companies in USA/Canada

Dear Sir/Madam,

I would like to have a detailed information on:

1. US & Canada's largest CPG/FMCG (fast moving consumer goods)manufacturers; 2. The names, and the flagship products 3. Turn over in excess of 100 million $

The list shall preferably satisfy all the 3 conditions.

IMP: The list SHALL NOT INCLUDE INCLUDE retail stores such as Walmart, Kmart etc. - as these are retail outlets & ARE NOT MANUFACTURERS)

Where can I have this info?

thanks & regards, Anand

  • Not here. Elfguy 12:21, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
(Okay, let's not not bite the newcomers.) Anand, it is likely that the information you require does not exist, in that form, anywhere. Certainly it can be found, but Wikipedia is not here to handle requests like this. Off the top of my head, if I were you, I would go to Google Groups and post a message somewhere asking about this. Or, if you don't mind spending a little, there are plenty of information-gathering companies on the web, who would be happy to help you, for a fee. — Nowhither 00:59, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
Forbes Magazine recently had a report on the largest US companies not traded on the stock market. There are Government agencies (Commerce Dept, Labor Dept, Census every 10 years in USA) that track the fluctuating size of the economy and its major players. There are industry associations, such as the National Associations of Manufacturers, with various kinds of statistics, but watch out some might not include non-members. There are many research organizations, such as Gartner, which produce reports by industry (you will have to pay to download some of them, but you can limit search on their sites to the free ones) ... which are the market leaders, most technologically advanced, etc. AlMac|(talk) 13:42, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

Searching for answers

  1. This place on Wiki is for asking questions about Wiki ... for questions on the larger world, you need to post at the Reference Desk.
  2. Remember that Google is only one search engine out of hundreds. It is real good if you already know something about the subject you are searching.
Here is a directory of search engines which you can search to find the search engine best suited to your interest area.
I have not updated my personal blog in years, but you may find some value in my [Search Engine Tips]
If you are a stranger to the subject you want to research, [Teoma] is often more helpful.
Google is heavily oriented towards consumer interests, you may find a search engine specifically for business more helpful, such as

AlMac|(talk) 13:47, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

Propose an adjustment of the 3RR rule to protect fairness

I recently ended up with a 2-day block under 3RR, as a result of an edit war at Asperger's Syndrome. An argument was started by 1 user making gratuitous personal attacks on my character out of nowhere, in talk, based on which a group of users then implacably refused to discuss neutral wording and used force of numbers to pool their 3RR rights to strike every few minutes and keep totally deleting all mention of a medically relevant item. You see how the balance of power was unbalanced if a group ganging up on 1 target have stronger 3RR rights in their favour? What motive do they they have to keep to civility and reasoning instead of bullying?

I can see the point of trying to bring some calm to the situation by trying to see if some reasoned discussion takes place while the contenders are silenced. So I actually don't contest my block provided all the opponents I had during the preceding day were blocked as well. Only they weren't. My edits were not even simple reversions but attempts to find consensual new edits incorporating others' feelings and interventions, and only the opponents' POV gets favoured by them each having a personal right to 3RR which they can pool.

How then is Wikipedia to guard against having its ethic of neutral content destroyed by the 3RR rule working in favour of bullying campaigns and organised frequent attacks on pages? An ethical concern for the entire nature of Wikipedia and reform proposal to solve the anomaly, arises from this case. It should be circulated to the entire community from top to users, for comment, so it can be put into practice straightaway.

Proposal, simply enact this:

(i) the 3RR rule also to apply when different people make the same revert, exactly the same as when 1 person does. Hence a group of users all editing on the same side of an argument will be subject to the rule, collectively, on equal terms to an individual.

(ii) When a 2-sided high-frequency edit war is happening, if a 3RR block is made it must be made simultaneously on every person on both sides who took prt during the preceding day. Admins at all levels with discretion whether to apply a 3RR block, shall not have discretion to apply one to only 1 side of such a dispute.

(iii) Except as part of such a 2-sided parity, a reverter who does not make simple reverts to the past but writes new adaptations can't be given a 3RR block, unless - There is a constructive editorial discussion in progress, that is about content not personal attacks towards that person's side, and about factuality not an insistence on simply deleting an item on grounds of not thinking it important.

Studying this case, do you see that without these rule changes, Wikipedia can be dragged into giving non-neutral positions with content censored by the agenda of a group who keep editing the same way? even on serious issues to do with children? On the basis of this case that has just happened, I contend that Wikipedia visibly owes to its members to make this rule adjustment. Office holders please comment.

tern 10:13, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

  • There's no need to adjust the 3RR rule. If people are unwilling to discuss and even resort to personal attacks to get their edits into an article, starting a request for comments and eventually a request for arbitration is the way to go. - 10:25, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
  • This case was too fast-moving for that, as study will show - and I'm new enough here still to need to ask, is there any time limit on these other solutions? If not, then a non-zero possibiliiy would exist that their promised result just "sometime" would let the mob win without limit of time while we waited for it. tern 10:30, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
  • This should not have gotten into a revert war at all. After your first change was reverted you should have taken discussion into the talk page. In the mean time the page can stay as it is. It was only fast moving because you decided to make it so. When a consensus is needed over a particular point in an article, the talk page is the place to do it, when it is clear that there is unresolved controversy. So far as I see it. Notinasnaid 10:36, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
    • I agree with Notinasnaid - if a revert war is happening, both parties are behaving badly - see m:The Wrong Version for a humourous take on this) JesseW 20:09, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Did you 2 actually look at the talk page concerned, and see the atmosphere there, that began before the edit war? tern 23:39, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
    • No, because it didn't matter. A revert war is not the solution. There are ways to raise issues, and that isn't one of then. I think a key reason for this rule is to stop revert wars from even starting because someone who plays will be punished even if their changes are in the right. Find another way. Please. Notinasnaid 07:52, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Probably best to discuss policy issues on the Wikipedia:Village pump if you want results. Elfguy 12:19, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

General Electrical

Dear Sir/ Madam, I am an Electrical Engineer for BP Chemicals Hull. I have worked for the Hull Site for 38 Years. I think that Wikipedia is a very helpful and informative site for young people. I have put several articles on Wikipedia from my experiences. If you require help with Electrical Articles or Electrical Questions I would be willing to help if I can. My home email is: and my work email is Regards, Ian Staff Electrical Engineer BP Chemicals, Hull. HU12 8DS

  • Go ahead and hunt for those articles. All help is appreciated. - 10:27, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
  • That's a nice offer to make. But you should know: There is no "Sir/Madam" sitting at a desk somewhere whose job is to respond to you. Just about EVERYONE here is someone like you, who comes, contributes and leaves. Do we need help with electrical articles? Absolutely. So don't wait for someone to tell you what to do. Just find something that needs to be done, and then go do it. — Nowhither 10:43, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
  • The first think to do would be to create a user account at Wikipedia, so people can ask you questions on your talk page. And/or you could watch the Wikipedia:Reference desk and answer questions there. Thanks for the offer, we can always use more help! JesseW 20:11, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Thank you for your suggestion! When you feel an article needs improvement, please feel free to make whatever changes you feel are needed. Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit almost any article by simply following the Edit link at the top. You don't even need to log in! (Although there are some reasons why you might like to…) The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes—they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills. New contributors are always welcome. Flcelloguy | A note? | Desk 17:22, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Google tag problem

If you go to Google, and type in "define:gas", the third entry you'll get will read as follows:

Chemical warfare is warfare (and associated military operations) using the toxic properties of chemical substances to kill, injure or incapacitate the enemy. Your Mum has not got a penis and your dad has a fanny so screw you.

You might want to fix that.

You can edit the article yourself to revert the vandalism. JIP | Talk 11:01, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
  • I think they'd like to know how long it takes for the vandalism to disappear from Google's listing... - 11:03, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
  • I think no one knows but google. Elfguy 12:06, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
I've dropped a note to google, alerting them. If someone wants to bother, we could try to find out when they update, and make some effort to remove vandalism before they do. I'd be curious if anyone finds this out. JesseW 20:16, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
Oh, dear. And here I thought I should always be making some effort to remove vandalism. Superm401 | Talk 23:58, August 25, 2005 (UTC)


Is there a way of moving the contents to the right for an article? I'm sure I've seen it been done for long articles.  Thorpe talk 12:41, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

Yes there is. See Wikipedia:TOC for that and more. Dismas 13:07, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
  • You can also try tipping over your monitor to the side. - 13:19, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
    That works only if all of the text is the same color; otherwise, the darker text, which is heavier, falls to the bottom and the lighter text rises to the top and everything gets completely messed up. Elf | Talk 21:37, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

Downloading The Wikipedia Database

To anyone who can help.

There are many articles on wikipedia mentioning that the database can be downloaded and that a 23.3 Gb file exists for the current, English version.

So my question is:

How can I download this 23 Gb, whole database file?

--Chris Rutledge

Question from Reference Desk

A new Reference desk has apparantly been established, and someone asked if there would be a way to have an image link to a specific page, and not the image's page. Thought it would be an appropriate question here.

Yes, it is now (sort of) possible: if you redirect the image page (Using the "#redirect new page" syntax), the user clicking the image will be sent to this new page. — Sverdrup 18:17, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
  • But that syntax doesn't work when there's other code, so where does the image information go? - 18:19, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
Well, I'd personally advise against doing that - it's not what image description pages are for (as you say, where does the description go?) and is more of a hack than anything else. It's useful in a few rare cases, but not often. There may, in the future, be a proper feature for this, if anyone gets round to implementing it properly - see Bugzilla:539. But for now, I think the answer to the original question is no. - IMSoP 22:08, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Adding links to the interface

Also, is there a way to have any link at the top right of the page? Thanks. --Lord Voldemort (Dark Mark) 16:45, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

Yes it is possible: you can add javascript (and css) to your skin. To use myself as example, I have modified wikipedia's appearance (visible for myself only) by editing the pages User:Sverdrup/monobook.js and User:Sverdrup/monobook.css. I can't make a working example of what you want right now, but I can tell you how it's done: You can add code to the .js file (the file doesn't exist before you create it), that runs when the page is loaded. Using javascript you can insert any kinds of elements into the page. Right now I have a script that displays a google search when a special placeholder element is found (User:Sverdrup/test1 gives me a google search, but it doesn't work for anyone else). Perhaps you can find someone to explain the javascript in detail. Good luck. — Sverdrup 18:17, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
No, I think I understand. An example is on WP:KATE. I just wasn't sure if it worked for any link, or just that one. Thanks. --Lord Voldemort (Dark Mark) 18:35, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

How do you add a table of contents with a simple tag?

Example: Colorado River

How do you add an organized table as at the bottom of this page with a simple tag (here, for example, it's Template:Colorado River system* without the asterisk)

Well, Staxringold, for a "table of contents" you can just use {{TOCright}} or {{TOCleft}}. But what is at the bottom there is a template. You just need to know the template and insert it by typing {{NAME OF TEMPLATE}}. This will produce the template on the page when you save. If there is no template already made, you need to make one for the topic you want it for. Which topic do you want to add a box like that to? --Lord Voldemort (Dark Mark) 18:06, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
I was planning on creating a 'template' (so that's the term, thank you) of the American Chopper bikes, both to interconnect all the bike pages and simplify the American Chopper page itself. Staxringold 18:10, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
Done. Check out {{Template:American Chopper}}. Fill it in and there you go. --Lord Voldemort (Dark Mark) 18:18, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
Thanks a bunch! Staxringold 18:21, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

Jedda vs. Jeddah

I have something of a problem here with an article about two things with almost the same name. User: wrote the article Jedda, movie which I moved to Jedda (movie). The article is about an Australian movie with Aboriginal actors. However, Jedda redirects to Jeddah which is a Saudi Arabian city. I added a Jeddah (disambiguation) page with links to both articles, but wants the Jedda article to mention the movie.

Note that the two things (the city and the movie) have different spellings. Normally this wouldn't be a problem - have Jedda be about the movie and Jeddah about the city - but in this case the city's native name is in Arabic, and its western transcription varies - both Jedda and Jeddah are used. The movie, however, is always spelled Jedda. How should this be handled? JIP | Talk 18:08, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

  • I think the following is the best placement:
  1. The movie is always spelled Jedda, so the movie article should be at Jedda
  2. Since the city is also sometimes spelled that way, at a notice to the top that says:
This article is about the Australian movie; for the city in Saudi Arabia see Jeddah.
  1. Put the city's article at Jeddah and place a similar notice on top of that article pointing to the movie.
  • This way the correct article is always a maximum of one click away and you don't need to make a whole bunch of disambiguation pages. - Mgm|(talk) 18:25, August 25, 2005 (UTC)

Optimization of release version changes of software

People interested in software articles please have a look on this discussion. --- Greetings, 18:30, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

Error of Fact on page

On your page,

you state that this photo was the first time a death was broadcast on TV. However, that is not true: this event occured in 1968. I remember watching on Nov. 23, 1963, when Jack Ruby shot Lee Harvey Oswald to death as TV cameras recorded Oswald being taken by sheriffs from jail in Dallas, Texas, the day following the assassination of Pres.John Kennedy.

  • This has been discussed elsewhere recently. The difference lies in the fact that Lee Harvey Oswald didn't die instantly, so technically he didn't die while on television. At least that's what I remember was said in the earlier discussion (somewhere this past week). - Mgm|(talk) 19:27, August 25, 2005 (UTC)

When are you going to fix it and stop making excuses?

One should not have to have the capitalizations perfect in order to to have a search work right. I put in the name of America's first 3rd political party- the "anti-masonic" party and get nothing because it won't work unless I put it in as "Anti-Masonic". I'll stick with google or library encyclopedias since your site is messed up.

  • If you feel so strongly about the capitalization, you could also use google to search only within Wikipedia. just use "" as one of the criteria (without the quotes). - Mgm|(talk) 19:30, August 25, 2005 (UTC)
  • The search box on the left is used to directly go to articles. If you want to actually search topics, you should use a search engine like Google. Very easy by typing: whatever

The reason why the search function doesnt do extensive searching, is server load. If you feel the servers should be upgraded to better handle searching, feel free to make a donation! Elfguy 19:51, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

The Wikipedia:Redirect help page discusses the issue of mixed case titles and a workaround in some detail. I just added a redirect for Anti-masonic party, which makes this specific article reachable in a case insensitive way. "GO" searches are usually case insensitive. In the cases in which they aren't, the workaround is to add a redirect. -- Rick Block (talk) 20:22, August 25, 2005 (UTC)

Kargil memories

Random memorial included on three different pages by (talkcontribsblock) removed.

  • This is a page to ask Wikipedia related questions. Maybe you should create an article with this. See the help link on the left of your screen if you don't know how. Elfguy 19:49, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

Cercidas Entry

Hi I am the person responsible for the Cercidas article. (25.8.05) My email is I am real sorry for putting you in this position but as I saw your link on their homepage I thought I was helping out by merely copying the information across from one of your sites to another. I have sent an email to the site hyperlink ( and have asked for permission and have also directed the editor of the site to the article via a hyperlink. I was not intending to rip off someones ideas or text because I thought this information was in the public domain on the net. I am now familiar with your copyright handling procedure and shall in future seek to obtain permission everytime if the material on the site is under some sort of license. I am truly sorry at having caused you this hassle but I will not make the same mistake again. I should have read more thoroughly your article on how to obtain permissions.

I only had good intentions in copying the article. It was not done maliciously.

I am awaiting a response from the site in question. I take full responsibility.

  • The text is from a book that is in the public domain, so its legal. Elfguy 21:59, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

White blood cells

  • What about them? - 22:30, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
    • Indeed, what about them? — Nowhither 00:42, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
      • That was a fine album, wasn't it? — mendel 19:09, August 26, 2005 (UTC)

your prose style

Oh my gahhhhhhd. Have you TRIED reading any of your text-dense pages, let alone understanding them? What on earth does THIS mean: " Your browser is not unicode compliant. A workaround is in place to allow you to safely edit articles: non-ASCII characters will appear in the edit box as hexadecimal codes. " There can be few more unfriendly interfaces on the entire web. If you want to engage with ordinary people, you geeks are gonna have to start talking plain English. - An Englishman.

You are absolutely right. This place attracts geeks and we don't always cater for ordinary people well enough. Let me translate the phrase for ypu.
Your browser doesn't support fancy letters. You're fine with ordinary numbers and letters a,b,c, etc but if you want to edit a page that contains anything fancy like a foreign language letter then you will see a code number instead of the letter. Hope this helps. Theresa Knott (a tenth stroke) 22:19, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Isn't unicode linked in that message? It would help people to find out what it means. - 22:31, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

. Well, Theresa, am v impressed with your quickness off the mark. But I'd clicked through a good dozen pages in a bid to find a way of communicating with Wikipedia, all of them mind-numbingly offputting with their lists of instructions and fundamentally incomprehensible language. This is intended to be an encyclopedia, yet the design defies readability. You could get rid of nine out of 10 underscored blue links for a start! Yrs No 217.

You make some good points, but I'm wondering whether part of the problem here is a fundamental misunderstanding. You are interested in "communicating with Wikipedia". But there is no organization out there to communicate with. It's all people like you who come here, find something to write or edit, and then do it. So, yes, we attract technical types, and the language, organization, and general "slant" of Wikipedia reflects that. How to deal with this issue is a significant concern. But an even more significant problem is how to communicate to people what Wikipedia is, and so prevent misunderstandings like the one that might have occurred here. We're having a very difficult time with that one. — Nowhither 23:34, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Wikipedia works fine for 99% of people out there. The reason you got a warning is that your browser isn't compliant with web standards, either it's a weird one or a very old one. It's a message generated automatically and not something you or I could change. Elfguy 23:58, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
    • Actually, the message is something that can be changed. It's at: MediaWiki:Nonunicodebrowser, and discussion can on a more non-technical wording can be had on MediaWiki_talk:Nonunicodebrowser, then any of 400 different people(janitors(aka admins)) can do the actual changing. So, yes, you or I can get this changed. As Nowither said above, "It's all people like you". BTW, I found the message by looking through: Special:Allmessages which includes the text of all the error messages, warnings, and so on that seem like "part of the system". They are all editable by any janitor(aka admin). JesseW 00:09, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
      • I meant "you and I" as non-admins. Obviously it can be changed, but I was mainly commenting that the original poster's attitude that "any of our text-dense pages can't be understood" is not accurate. Elfguy 02:12, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
I've listed a suggested new wording on the talk page. All and sundry, please feel free to comment there. Oh, and Englishman No 217, you might find Wikipedia:Glossary useful; it's a list of Wikipedia jargon. JesseW 00:21, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
  • If you wan't to contact the people who are maintaining the servers and cash, there's a nice contact us link to the left of your screen. Also, for WIkipedia terminology, see Wikipedia:Glossary. - 05:02, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
  • I agree with the comments about how unclear wikipedia is for newcomers & nontechies. I've been here a year and a half, and I'm a "techie" and, if I don't know how to do something, it can still take me a goodly amount of time to find out what I need to know. I try to to make text clearer & more concise when I can, or to organize things better when I can, but there's such an overwhelming amount of information that's grown organically rather than by design. And I don't think that newcomers easily get the idea that a help message filled with blue links is roughly equivalent to a bulleted list of topics-- Anyway, that's my three cents (oh, make that 4 to cover the cost of gasoline). Elf | Talk 15:23, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

copyright issue

I am a new user. I submitted my first article titled 'Juana Briones' by adapting language from a website by that name which I thought I had a right to use. (I am a board member of the non-profit organization which developed the website. I asked the Juana Briones Heritage Foundation board if I could use the information in the website, and was granted permission.) Wikipedia, however, raised the copyright infringement alert! Today, I have written an article on this person in my own words, and titled it "Juana Briones de Miranda". This time it worked beautifully, and I am grateful. However, anyone trying to find information who enters the search term Juana Briones only finds the copyright alert article.

Can we delete the original? (it appears three times but is the same article) or, even better, simply let the search term Juana Briones connect to the article titled Juana Briones de Miranda?

Thanks for your help,

Kathy Akatiff

Backing up to the issue that started it all. There were two problems here. First, you may have gotten permission to use the material, but you did not document the fact. Secondly, you put the organization's copyright notice right on the page, which strongly suggests that Wikipedia does not have the right to use the material. In particular, everything on Wikipedia is covered under the GNU Free Documentation License, which essentially means that you, as well as the organization, do not get to claim rights to Wikipedia's copy of the information anymore. If your organization insists on keeping the copyright notice, then the material may not legally be placed here. As for the deletion, someone else will have to help you with that. — Nowhither 00:47, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
Deleted and redirected. --cesarb 00:52, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Recovering password

I am user Marcusscotus. Somehow, I got logged off, the password that I thought that I used didn't work, and the emal-password-recovery option never sent me an email. I'd love to get back on Wikipedia with my old username, but I have no idea what to do...there doensn't seem to be any other options.

  • Once you run out of options, the only choice left is creating a new user name. Elfguy 03:38, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
    • No. You can contact a developer, who assuming you can prove you actually were that user (if you can remember what the email was, etc) they may be able to help you. You can try irc:// to find one. JesseW 05:17, 26 August 2005 (UTC)


[Removed long rant about poor services.] Lupo 08:39, August 26, 2005 (UTC)

Where is the tribute to wiki page?

I will not presume to create a page for this, but it should be easily searchable

  • thank you
  • thanks wiki
  • wikipedia tribute

I am sure you understand where I am going with this... What page (I insist on a page) may I add my 'thank you'

The best place -- where "best" here approximates "most likely to be seen by the people you want to thank" -- is probably the talk page of the article you want to thank them for, accessible via the "discussion" tab at the top of the article. Most people who significantly edit a page add the page to their watch list, and will be alerted to changes on the page's talk page. — mendel 19:06, August 26, 2005 (UTC)


The airship is back! Indeed of many projects are under development. Among those Ci, there is that of the British company TGA: genuine a 185 meters length flying steamer! Which is the name of this project? Answer has) Blue Bird b) Sky Cat c) Sky Line

Julius Caesar

Seeing as Julius Caesar' father was also named Gaius Julius Caesar III wouldn't that make the Julius Caesar we know as Gaius Julius Caesar IV?

  • I can't find any evidence he had the same name as his father. But even if that's the case having his article named Julius Caesar is correct, because it's the name people commonly use to refer to him. See Wikipedia:Naming conventions. If you can find a reference that backs up your statement, feel free to add IV behind his name in the lead of the article and add the reference too. - 12:33, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

A terrible mistake about me, mes réputation, my work and mes family.


As you know, there a lot on dogs whitch ara named Fido.

Te same thing with the name of Guy Cloutier.

So, you gave the reference of my site about the case of guy Ckloutier, the tv producer who is in jail after bee convinced of pédophily. I'm not this Guy Cloutier. I'm the whritter and the director on Les poètes de l'Amnérique française (poetry reading). Read the notice and the bibliographie and you will see the évidence. So, your publication makes to me a lot a problems.

What kind on professionnals are you ????

I hope wuou will correct your terrible mistake and professionnal error and publish this correction.

I'am very unhappy.

Guy Cloutier PhD

Guy, the incorrect link has now been removed. By the way, this is the kind of error you can easily fix yourself, as well. Anyone can edit Wikipedia. Sorry for the mistake. Friday (talk) 14:52, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
Wikipedia is an interactive, collaborative project which is constantly evolving towards the goal of being a comprehensive, unbiased encyclopedia.
  • This means, firstly, that while mistakes sometimes happen they are generally quickly corrected once they are discovered - indeed, we like to think they will be corrected faster than mistakes that get into a traditional print or CD-ROM encyclopedia.
  • Secondly, there is no central "board of review", only a large mass of contributors reviewing each other's work, so you are in fact correct that we are not, in general any kind of "professionals" (although, individually, many contributors are professionals in all sorts of fields).
  • Thirdly, anyone can edit a page - you don't even need to log in, though it's quick and painless and has a couple of advantages - and that includes you. So, why not join us?
Meanwhile, looking at the Guy Cloutier article reveals that somebody has removed the link, so as Friday says, many apologies for the mistake. - IMSoP 15:00, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
I've left a note on the talk page:
Note for future reference; this is not the Guy Cloutier here. As they're both Canadians with an unusual name there may be some confusion; please be careful to confirm that any information you add is about the correct person.
This should hopefully prevent someone accidentally adding it back under a misconception in the future; I suspect it's quite possible the person who initially added it didn't speak French and assumed it was the same person (both do appear to be in the same geographical area). Still, fixed now. Shimgray 15:33, 26 August 2005 (UTC)


I have a few unrelated questons:

  1. I know that piping in category tags changes the order they are listed, but I often find the pipe to be the artilce title. Is this done for a reason, or just newbies uncetain of how the tag works?
  2. When doing link repair, it would be useful to select which namespace you can view, much as you can do in the Special:Contributions section. Where can I request this feature, if you think it is plausible?
  3. On the point of link repair, is there a way to count the entries in a "What links here", like can be done with contibutions using Kate's tool?
  4. Sometimes the "Edit this page" tab just reads "Edit", why is that?

If you need further clarification on any of my questions, just ask. --Commander Keane 15:30, August 26, 2005 (UTC)

  1. AFAIK, it's just people not knowing how the tag works.
  2. Perhaps Bugzilla?
  3. Not in the standard MediaWiki. You'll have to write a custom tool, like Kate did. I don't know anything about writing custom tools, me.
  4. Not the foggiest.

JIP | Talk 16:07, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

My understanding of 4 is:
  • To find the strings used to build the UI, MediaWiki first looks in MediaWiki:Edit and then falls back on the version of the string encoded into the software.
  • The former says "Edit this page", the latter (mediawiki/language/Language.php) says simply "Edit".
  • If the system is running slowly (I think that's the theory, at least) sometimes Mediawiki gives up waiting for the contents of MediaWiki:Edit to be retreived, and falls back to the default.
-- 17:45, August 26, 2005 (UTC)
An additional note on question 1 is that in things other than articles (e.g. "Wikipedia:Help desk"), you want the sort key to be the title (e.g. "Help desk") but not namespace:title - so [[Category:Foo|{{PAGENAME}}]] may be different from just [[Category:Foo]] (which would be equivalent to [[Category:Foo|{{NAMESPACE}}{{PAGENAME}}]]) - IMSoP 21:51, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Is it possible to rotate a picture uploaded to the commons.

Is it posssible to rotate a picture uploaded to the commons within the commons? Alternatively, is it possible to rotate a picture inside the article that is referencing it in from the "commons?" Thank you. --Galloper 17:28, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

The only way to do that is to download the image, rotate it yourself with a graphics program, rename it (ideally you'd rename foo.jpg to foo_rotated.jpg, for example) and upload it under that name back to commons. Make sure to have the rotated image's description link back to the original (for purposes of giving credit where it's due). -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 17:34, August 26, 2005 (UTC)
No, it's not possible. You will have to upload a rotated version. Upload with the same name to replace the old version, or under a new name to keep both versions. — Sverdrup 17:35, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Wiki Course

Maybe my mind is tricking me. But quite a long time ago, I came across a project that aimed to teach to newbies in how to effectively edit wikipedia. It appeared to have a set time structure and someone was the instructor who guided the lot. Is this project still active and if so, where can I find it? - Mgm|(talk) 17:55, August 26, 2005 (UTC)

Do you mean Wikipedia:Bootcamp? Mindspillage (spill yours?) 19:19, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Yep, that's it. THanks! 20:08, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Database dumps?

The existing database dump [8] was created back on the 23rd of June; has grown about 15% since then. Does anyone know when a new dump is likely to be made available? Shimgray 18:12, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Once the resources are available.  Thorpe talk 18:35, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Can you use volunteer typists/proofers

Wish to obtain work (or volunteer) for on-line typing, proofing, etc. Can you utilize me? Nancy Lopez

  • Yes, wikipedia can always use people to help. But it would have to be volunteer work, because all of the work is done by volunteers. - 18:53, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Sure, but this is a volunteer project so we don't pay. Pick an article and start contributing! Elfguy 18:53, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

What makes Cindy Sheehan anti-American?

Please advise.


Daniel Hamann

  • It was vandalism, which has been reverted. Elfguy 18:51, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Why, of course Sheehan hates freedom, because she is campaigning for peace! =) JIP | Talk 11:35, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

Racist comments

If a member continues to make what you consider racist comments towards you even after you ask them to stop what can you do? Elfwood 18:45, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

  • Start a request for comments on their behaviour. Link to as much specific instances of recist comments as you can using diffs and if you don't know how to do that, contact a more experienced Wikipedian to help you with it. - 18:56, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

I am confused do you get two people to try and resolve the dispute then create RFC or create the RFC and two people will try and resolve the depute in the first 48 hours. Elfwood 19:30, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

  • Yes, you need to get two people to try and solve the dispute so they can sign the RFC and ensure it's not some baseless accusation. It's just something to protect people from unfounded attacks. - 20:06, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

How would I do that? It says in the RFC article that you should not just get some friends to do it for you. So do I post a request some were and if so were? Elfwood 20:22, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

I have found a spelling error.

Dear Sir or Madam, Upon consulting your online encyclopedia, I discovered a spelling error in your article on "The preamble to the constitution." I have copied the article below although your version appers in italics.

We the People of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, ensure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

As you have no doubt noticed, the word "Defence" is incorrectly spelled. As a brand new English Language Arts teacher at Commerce Middle School, Yonkers, New York I am delighted to inform you of this error. I intend to use this event as part of a lesson plan. Please acknowledge this email so I can have bragging rights. With sincere thanks Theresa Narad

Defense and defence are both valid spellings, the latter being the more common British form, the former being the more common US form. The drafters of the constitution used the British spelling - see -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 19:50, August 26, 2005 (UTC)
It seems a lot of online versions silently correct this, which causes confusion, but the original does seem to be with a C. You can just about make it out on this image, the line below and just to the right of the large "We the People" Shimgray 19:52, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Defence is the correct spelling in Canada also. In fact I'm not sure I've ever heard "defense" except from US people. Elfguy 19:53, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
    • And apparently only recent US people at that. But in any case Theresa, Thank you for your suggestion! When you feel an article needs changing, please feel free to make whatever changes you feel are needed. Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit any article by simply following the Edit link. You don't even need to log in! (Although there are some reasons why you might like to...) The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes—they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or try out the sandbox to try out your editing skills. New contributors are always welcome.. Dmcdevit·t 19:57, August 26, 2005 (UTC)
      • But do please note that you should always be careful when - as in this case - correcting direct quotations, where the source material may have said something incorrectly. Shimgray 19:59, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

How to revert pagemove

Accidentally I renamed (moved) the disambiguity page Agri to Ağrı. How do I revert this?

Exactly the same way you did the initial move - the software will let you overwrite the redirect it created because no history information is being lost. But this time I've done it for you already. - IMSoP 20:26, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
Thank you! Benne 20:36, 26 August 2005 (UTC)


I have seen the word, "currently" in many articles, e.g., show so and so is currently on the air, Mr/Mrs. Doe is currently the CEO of Widgets Inc. It always makes me a bit wary as it seems to be an invitation for articles to go out of date.

I have looked for a policy on using or avoiding the term in the style guide and other places on the site but I have not seen one. If I have missed it, please direct me to it or tell me what the unspoken rule is. Failing that, make up something that sounds good. Qaz 20:14, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

It's much better to say as of 2005, as those links mean the related text can later be found easily and updated. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 20:16, August 26, 2005 (UTC)
Agreed. I do remember discussions about this probably last year some time (and probably over and over), but I don't remember where, and I think that's what the general agreement was. Elf | Talk 01:21, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
Please see Wikipedia:Avoid_statements_that_will_date_quickly (it's listed under "Advice on content writing" on Wikipedia:Style_and_How-to_Directory).-- Rick Block (talk) 04:23, August 27, 2005 (UTC)

changing page title

Hello - I have recently added a page but I would like to change it's title. I can't see how to do this on the edit page section. What if there is already a page with the same name that I would like, only about an entirely different person or subject? Thanks.

For how to rename the page, see Help:Renaming (moving) a page (note that you have to be logged in for this to appear - and it may not appear until the account has existed a couple of days, I'm not sure). For how to deal with two pages with the same "natural" name, see Wikipedia:Disambiguation. - IMSoP 20:34, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
See User talk:Jonchaplin for more; assuming this was about Charles Chaplin (artist), moved from its original longer title. Elf | Talk 23:06, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Template messages

WP:TM seems to suggest that users can create new template messages without any consensus or voting from other users. Specifically, WP:TM states "Instructions: When you add new template messages to this page, please help keep the tables in alphabetical order." I'd like a new template added to User talk templates. Can I just add it? Wikipedianinthehouse 22:02, August 26, 2005 (UTC)

I would. Elf | Talk 23:18, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
Sure, you can. Note however, that if the template is just for your personal (Userpage) use, you should use a subpage of your userpage as template. Yes, {{User:Wikipedianinthehouse/talk pages}} works like a template. — Sverdrup 00:52, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
More likely used for something like {{User:Elf/welcome}}. Elf | Talk 01:19, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Movie-The Blue

Not sure what your question was. Blue (disambiguation), which you can get to by clicking its link at the beginning of the article title blue, lists several movies titled Blue. Elf | Talk 00:04, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Page history question

I'm trying to track down the origin of the text that presently resides at Jewish history in Colonial America. According to its history, it was brought from History of Jews in the United States (pre-20th century). However, the history of that article is very mysterious. It begins with an outward move. This outward move is not recorded in the history of the article which allegedly received the move. What's going on here? --Smack (talk) 23:59, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

  • Looks like it was moved multiple times. Maybe this is what you're looking for. Elfguy 01:35, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Images in templates

When an image in a template is changed to a different one, all the pages using that template still appear as using the old image. Is there any way of solving this problem, or at least of knowing which articles are using the image as part of the template and which ones aren't? I've found that making a null edit in one of those pages removes it from the list of pages using the old image, but this is not the solution I'm looking for - not when there are >500 pages using said template.

Thanks. --Fibonacci 23:59, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

  • Those articles are using a cached. You need to add "action=purge" on the end of the URL instead of "action=edit" or "action=history" for the articles in question. - Mgm|(talk) 06:48, August 27, 2005 (UTC)
Thanks, I already tried that. It didn't work. --Fibonacci 07:13, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
This problem is due to the way the database is currently structured - when a template is editted, the caches of the page contents are purged, but the tables recording what they link to (including categories, images, etc) is not. There's no easy answer to this, so you'll just have to live with it for now. See MediaZilla:939. - IMSoP 13:03, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Cellpadding doesn't work

I can't get the cellpadding for my tables to work properly. Here's an example:

Test1 Test2 Test3 Test4

The table has "cellpadding=0" as an attribute, but still there's some space to the top and bottom. What's wrong? /Jebur 01:20, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

I might be wrong, but I don't think anything is wrong in your example. I checked the source HTML code of this page, and this is what I got:
<table align="center" border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tr style="font-size: 60%;">
So your "cellpadding=0" is correctly translated to "cellpadding=0" on the generated HTML code. --Fibonacci 06:48, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Perhaps cells have a minimum height? - Mgm|(talk) 06:49, August 27, 2005 (UTC)
Yeah, I tested in other servers and it worked there. Seems to be some bug in the wikimedia software... /Jebur 01:37, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

page deletion...

One of my pages, Cleveland And The Steamers has been removed (deleted?) from its position as a sub-page of the Surf rock category. Uh...why?

  • Gee, I don't know. Maybe because the entire thing was made up? Zoe 07:44, August 27, 2005 (UTC)
  • That's the same thing I here from people whenever I tell them about the band. Although they are extremely obscure and not well-known (which is why I created the article), and they may have been written off as a bunch of Beach Boys-wannabes, they were an actual surf rock band that, whether you like it or not, actually existed. Refugee621 06:44, August 27, 2005 (UTC)
  • The page can be restored by requesting it to be undeleted, see Wikipedia:Votes for undeletion. If you can cite credible sources of some kind (so other editors can verify the band was real and the events described on the page really happened, please see Wikipedia:Cite sources), then you should have no problem getting the article restored. The issue is not whether anyone believes you, but that it is wikipedia policy to only include information that is verifiable, see Wikipedia:Verifiability. Many editors also insist articles should be about notable topics. Guidelines concerning articles about musicians and musical groups are at Wikipedia:WikiProject Music/Notability and Music Guidelines. -- Rick Block (talk) 16:58, August 27, 2005 (UTC)
Uhuh. This real band knocked Ed Sullivan to the ground and defecated on his chest? Zoe 19:50, August 27, 2005 (UTC)
  • Christ almighty! You can't just pick ONE little instance which YOU happen to disagree with (although it is completely factual) and use that as the basis for your argument. For one, I actually HAVE their records, and they were mentioned in multiple publications at the time these events took place.

I suggest further conversation about this page be continued at Wikipedia:Votes_for_undeletion#Cleveland_And_The_Steamers. And, if you wish the page to be undeleted, please cite a verifiable source. -- Rick Block (talk) 00:47, August 28, 2005 (UTC)

Don't gloss over Soviet crimes

Wikipedia mentions briefly the crimes of the Communists in Russia but not in any way similar to the lengthy depictions given to the crimes of the Nazis. Stalin killed every bit as many innocent civilians as Hitler did and he needs to be recorded in history as such. For some reason, communist crimes that, in total, far exceed the already enormous atrocities committed by the Nazis always just get a general mention. Please don't minimize the savagery and sub-human behavior of the Soviet regime. There is no way a factual retelling of history can be complete without devoting at least as much space to Communist crimes as Nazi crimes

  • People probably didn't get around to adding it. It's not something we're purposely trying to keep out. Besides, maybe you're just checking the wrong pages and we're actually mentioning it somewhere else. - Mgm|(talk) 06:52, August 27, 2005 (UTC)
  • There are 44 articles under political repressions Category:Soviet political repressions; Khmer Rouge is exceptionally detailed; as is Cultural Revolution. Just a starting point. --Dhartung | Talk 08:21, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
  • "Stalin killed every bit as many innocent civilians as Hitler did ...." Actually, he killed quite a lot more than Hitler. So I agree with you. And despite the articles mentioned above, I think it is true that Wikipedia is rather harder on the Nazis than the Soviets. There are various historical reasons for this, like the fact that Hitler's regime got demolished in a war, and people thus escaped to tell their horrifying stories, while Stalin's regime stayed in power long after Stalin. Also the fact that, during World War II, many of the countries that now dominate the Web were allied with Stalin, but at war with Hitler. And the propaganda of the time is still echoing today. The solution to this? Do something about it. — Nowhither 04:08, 28 August 2005 (UTC) using Wikipedia information?

I was looking up time zone information today and found the wikipedia page : Then I found The site seems to be using information from I'm not sure if this is legal or ethical, but I thought I should let someone know.

All of Wikipedia's content is licensed under the GFDL (linked in the fine text at the bottom of every page). The site you mention has, in its fine text at the bottom of the page, what looks like wording completely complying with the terms of GFDL (not a legal opinion - I'm not a lawyer). Such "copying" is explicitly allowed under GFDL. There are a large number of sites which mirror all or portions of Wikipedia's content, see Wikipedia:Mirrors and forks. -- Rick Block (talk) 04:36, August 27, 2005 (UTC)

CSS please

Could someone please tell me where to locate the content of CSS class "toccolours"? Thanks. -- Reinyday, 04:27, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

There are three places to look (here, for the monobook skin (default)):

In this case, it's in the first one and the second one

.toccolours {
    border: 1px solid #aaa;
    background-color: #f9f9f9;
    padding: 5px;
    font-size: 95%;

HTH. — Sverdrup 11:27, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks! -- Reinyday

Incorrect Material

John Madden is not the father of Benji and Joel Madden of Good Charlotte. He has two sons but they aren't the ones. He lives with his wife, Virginia, in Pleasanton, California. AND, their two sons.

  • Are you sure we're talking about the same John Madden? It's not that uncommon a name. Just because the John Madden you know isn't their father, doesn't mean their father isn't also called John Madden. Can you find a source that gives their father a different name? - Mgm|(talk) 06:54, August 27, 2005 (UTC)
  • Which article are you referring to? Zoe 07:45, August 27, 2005 (UTC)
See this edit. --Dhartung | Talk 08:23, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
That edit was made two days ago and reverted the same day. Why do you care what is in the edit history, when it's not in the current version of the article? Zoe 08:37, August 27, 2005 (UTC)
The old version was quite likely showing up due to a caching issue - this happens surprisingly often. Shimgray 14:08, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Request for translation

Where is the better place in Wikipedia where I can request words or sentences (not articles) to be translated? CG 09:02, August 27, 2005 (UTC)

A list of airlines

[no text]

Erm... List of airlines? Category:Airlines? - IMSoP 14:21, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

CSS class list

Can someone direct me to a page (perhaps on meta) that lists all the classes/ids that MediaWiki uses, so that I can create my own skin (I just redid my whole personal site in css...w00t!)? Thanks.. — Ilγαηερ (Tαlκ) 13:34, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

How to change expanded stub to regular article?

I've expanded a stub and think it's now full enough to be an article. How do I change its status, and would this information please be added to the how to edit page?

Thank you --KBecks 14:25, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

If you think it's no longer a stub, simply delete the stub message - it probably looks something like {{something-stub}} Shimgray 14:55, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Are you sure you expanded a stub Becks? I can only find two edits to George W. Bush and this question in your contribution history. Were you logged in at the time? You've made me curious, which stub did you edit? - 15:08, 27 August 2005 (UTC)


Can anyone tell me why Jordan is not required to be involved in the peace process, with a view to giving up territory too?

My understanding is that in the post war British carve up, the majority of 'Palestine' was given as an appeasement to the Saudis. The then Palestinians (consisting of moslems, jews, christians, druse, orthodox - everyone!) were effectively 'occupied'.

Despite trying together to get their country back, the 'old' Palestinians' uprisings were quashed, often violently.

Approx. 60% of Jordanians constitute 'old' Palestinians (the majority moslem but, still inc. jews, christians, druse etc.)

It is no wonder to me that jews (arab and european) and arab (moslem and christian) and other groups, are left fighting over only a third of what should be theirs to share.

Thanks, Isca

sexually explicit photo in inappropriate place

Where do you complain about sexually explicit photos? When looking up Henry Bergh, the founder of the ASPCA, I found just such a photo.

  • You can reinstate the version of the page before the image was inserted or changed. See Wikipedia:How to revert a page. If you don't feel comfortable doing this, you can post here to complain, but please link to the page in question. I couldn't find any vandalism on Henry Bergh. - 16:36, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
This was caused by someone editing one of the messages that was on that page ("...biographical article is a stub..."). We caught, reverted, and banned them within a couple of minutes; it seems to be gone now. Apologies; this sort of thing is usually caught fast (there were at least three editors working on fixing it, I believe). Shimgray 16:38, 27 August 2005 (UTC)


Hey, I'm having trouble finding where it says, the author's name, the periodical title, and the date of the article so I can cite my source. Where are these things located? PLEASE HELP!!!! -anon

If what you want is to cite a Wikipedia article, take a look at Wikipedia:Citing Wikipedia. --cesarb 16:45, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

^ So if I wanted to cite my source for the Queen Elizabeth I page, I'd go like this:"Elizabeth I of England." Wikipedia: The Free Encyclopedia 26 Aug. 2005 27 Aug. 2005 <>

I think it looks funny because the date of article is the day before I researched it. Thanks for helping!!!! AND AM I ALLOWED TO USE PICTURES ON THIS WEBSITE FOR MY SCHOOL PROJECT????

Yes, as long as you give proper credit to where the image came from (I'm not sure if you have to give credit to wikipedia or the original website), and you specify that the image is licensed as GFDL (perhaps in your bibliography) — Ilγαηερ (Tαlκ) 17:46, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Be sure to include the time and date if the version of the article you referred to. You can find it by clicking history on top of the article. If you click the date and time of the article you use, you can get a permalink. - 19:18, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Inlcuding "last modified time" in wikitext

How can one do that. I try searching, but since most of the pages have last modified at the bottom, it returns everything - mechanicalamit

You can click on the "history" tab at the top of the page; you can view all revisions of the article, including the time and date of each edit. Flcelloguy | A note? | Desk 17:54, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Nopes, What I mean is that I want to include a "last modified time" in the main text of the page that is displayed.

Help:Variable lists all such messages, but we don't seem to have one that works simply for "time of last modification" - there's one for current time, and one for number of last revision, but not what you need. Shimgray 18:02, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
Aha! Found it - you need to go through the MediaWiki namespace, specifically MediaWiki:Lastmodified... but I can't find how to include that in an article. I may just be being stupid. Anyone? Shimgray 18:11, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
I believe this is the text of the message that is currently displayed at the bottom of each page, and is how the text string is separated from the source code that's using it (so the same code can be used for all the different language versions of wikipedia). The $1 in this context is replaced by the current date, but $1 in another such text file may have a completely different meaning. I think the bottom line is that this file basically has nothing to do with the question. -- Rick Block (talk) 21:43, August 27, 2005 (UTC)
Since the last modified time is displayed at the bottom of each page, what do you need this for (what are you trying to do)? -- Rick Block (talk) 18:05, August 27, 2005 (UTC)
I am ruuning a wiki of my own where I am trying to use it as a check-in system for sports. When players include their name, I am trying to put in the last modified so that you can immidiately tell when it was last updated. It will help since it will right there and you dont have to scroll to the bottom of the page.
Can you use ~~~~~ (5 tildes)? This string expands to the current date/time (like signing a note on a talk page, but one more tilde). If everyone "checking in" replaces the last time with this string, the time will be updated (not automatic, but perhaps better than nothing). -- Rick Block (talk) 21:43, August 27, 2005 (UTC)
Here's a possible hack - have a template containing the five-tilde string, and add that to the page. Every time you save, it adds the template again, so a new timestamp? Best to check this doesn't just update on reloading, though. Shimgray 22:44, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
No Luck with the hack - Obviously the first time I tried it, it expanded the tildes in the template itself. I then tried both (&#126 ;&#126 ;&#126 ;) and the nowiki tag, but in that case I get the tildes when I use the template as well. I guess the nowiki tag gets carried over. The good news is that I learnt how to sign my name. Mechanicalamit 04:14, August 28, 2005 (UTC)

Schiller article

fix <- that is rank. <- could somone with a bit of know how , change that?. Its hiddeous , its not suitable. I find it offensive

Someone was vandalising the redirect template - the text at the top of the page - earlier. It's solved now, and they've been blocked; reloading should clear it. Shimgray 17:51, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

1994 class ring

(no text)

  • And your question is...? - 19:20, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Warned of Vandalism -- Why?

Over the past few days, I have made edits I feel are appropriate to Wikipedia. I visit wikipedia today and it seems that someone User:Zoe has placed my IP address on final warning.

I want to know why my IP was listed as a "vandal", and specifically what edits I made to wikipedia that caused me to recieve a final warning -- without any previous warnings.

It seems odd for me to be accused of vandalism as I donate to Wikipedia.

Where should I go to get this issue resolved?

I have asked Zoe to respond to you; however, just keep in mind that IP addresses can be shared by multiple users. Yes, it is odd that you received a final warning without other warnings- usually, there are 3 other messages rising in severity before that message is placed. I hope this helps, and that you continue editing Wikipedia! (Also, I highly urge you to create an account.) Flcelloguy | A note? | Desk 23:04, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

I really don't know why you were warned at all. All of your edits seem to check out, I guess we should just wait for Zoe to respond. Howabout1 Talk to me! 23:05, August 27, 2005 (UTC)

To be honest, I can't remember what the reason for the warning was. Generally, when I leave a warning, I'll leave a link to the page that the warning refers to, but in this case I didn't, which to me indicates that it was a general pattern of behavior, but looking back through the logs and what I was doing at that time, I can't figure out what the warning is for. I apologize for not being clearer. I would also not have immediately jumped to a test4 unless it was something serious. Zoe 23:09, August 27, 2005 (UTC)

This is the accused user in question. Please see: User_talk:Zoe and User_talk: I have been unable to come to a resolution with User:Zoe. Said user has left my status at final warning, told me that any removed edits I made will not show in my User Contributions list, and has informed me that there is no further recourse for me to resolve the issue -- no one above him that I may voice my complaints to. Although I understand that final warnings are given to users who vandalize multiple times, I have not vandalized Wikipedia once. I find it offensive that I have been accused of vandalism with no evidence provided, nor any way to prove I did not do the things I am accussed of, and left with the resulting undeserved stigma of being a vandal without recourse. (later spellcorrected the words "who" and "understand")

Please don't worry about this too much. There are no "supervisors" in Wikipedia; there are only administrators, who simply have extra janitorial powers (such as page deletion and blocking). Looking at your contributions, I see no apparent vandalism, so if you wish, I will remove the now-stricken out warning. As for other recourses, we do have various ways to handle these issues, including requests for comments, where other users can give input in the case, mediation, where someone will mediate, and the arbitration committee, for those really serious cases. I urge you to assume good faith, and I assure you there will be no undeserving stigma. Thanks for your understanding and for your contributions! Flcelloguy | A note? | Desk 00:45, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
I found and retrieved the article from User: that was deleted by User:Zoe. I've posted it at both User_talk: and User_talk:Zoe. It does seem to be a nonsense article, of the type that is simply a string of random text that goes off frame to the right for quite a ways, so if the complaining contributor didn't post it, someone else is either using their computer or network. I hope this helps clear up the mystery a bit. Fire Star 01:07, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
I have not posted this message to Wikipedia, and the only other users that share my IP address are my relatives who live in the same house, and one of them (coincidentally) moved out today. I will be having a discussion with this particular individual very quickly about the matter. If it is true that someone in my household has posted this bogus article to Wikipedia, you have my immediate apologies and assurances it will not happen again. Thank you.
Update. Issue resolved. It turns out that yes, this family member was responsible for vandalizing Wikipedia. I talked to him on the phone. This individual just mentioned to me that he has added "many" bogus articles to Wikipedia, and cannot remember them all. He mentioned he added an article about "tolphanite: the apparent hardened result of stale tofu", but I could not find this article on Wikipedia. I apologize for his behavior, and confess that the admins would have been absolutely justified in banning this IP address had they done so. Although this person moved out on their own today, I ask for Wikipedia to reinstate the level 4 warning on this IP address to send a message that this kind of behavior is not smiled upon and they were justified to place such restrictions upon this IP address in the first place. I will create my own account to enjoy Wikipedia from my individual private account. Again, Wikipedia has my most sincerest apologies.
I will post this message to both the User_talk:Zoe and User_talk: pages.

Francis Lee (F. Lee) Bailey

In Wilkipedia there is a fairly extensive article on him, (F. Lee Bailey), Yet when I did a google search that revealed this article, as well as two on the linux cyclopedia, the linux version had a statement saying the article was a "stub", and asking for help expanding it, even though extensive information was available elsewhere in wilkipedia. Why IS This? Copy of wilkipedia article below. Also the site is very difficult to navigate when trying to find help. and I feel the seeming ease of availability to edit material could be potentially very hazardous to the overall quailty and content of Wilkipedia. A cross correlation should be done to ensure that the articles available in Wilkipedia are available in what appears to be a Linux equivalent.

Francis Lee Bailey From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. (Redirected from F. Lee Bailey)

Bailey made the cover of Time in the late '70s for defending Patty HearstFrancis Lee Bailey, often referred to as F. Lee Bailey (born 1933), is a U.S. lawyer. He served as a defense lawyer in the famous O. J. Simpson case and the court martial of Capt. Ernest Medina. Bailey and prosecutor Richard Gerstein were the directors of CenTrust Federal Savings Bank, a failed satellite of the BCCI.

In 1983, the Soviets shot down Korean Airlines Flight 007. Bailey represented the families of the passengers in a wrongful death suit. In his letter of acceptance, Bailey pledged to “work full-time as required” on the case. But in five years, Bailey worked only 97 hours on pretrial preparation, compared with 6,311 hours worked by the two other law firms. A few years later, the families sued Bailey for misrepresentation. Bailey explained that he had to move to Florida, to allow his wife Patricia to be near her ailing parents. Because of this, he could not assist the families he’d been hired to represent. However he had charged full-time legal fees. In 1993 a federal court ordered Bailey to return some of the money to the families.

He has been disbarred twice once in 1971 in the state of New Jersey and again in 2001 in the state of Florida.

Retrieved from "" Categories: 1933 births | High profile American lawyers | Drunk drivers | Lawyers | People from Massachusetts | U.S. Marines | Harvard Law School graduates

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This page was last modified 18:46, 26 August 2005. All text is available under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License (see Copyrights for details).

  • There are many forks and mirrors of Wikipedia; these are websites that simply copy Wikipedia content. Because they only update periodically, they are generally not the most current version. See Wikipedia:Forks and mirrors. As for your question about anyone being able to edit, see Wikipedia:FAQ. Finally, what do you recommend to make finding help easier? Thanks for your input! Flcelloguy | A note? | Desk 23:42, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

porn on wikipedia

You should know that when you key in "Wikipedia file format PDF" porn shows up.

Bill, please tell us the URL (the web address) of the page on which you see this porn. Our Portable Document Format is porn free, and there's no sign its having been pornfull anytime recently. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 23:58, August 27, 2005 (UTC)
Someone vandalised the redirect template today, so "PDF redirects here. For other uses see &c" was displaying as, if memory serves, a monochrome picture of a penis. That's three complaints here stemming from one guy; indicative of how much annoyance a vandal can do with often-used templates, I guess. Shimgray 04:38, 28 August 2005 (UTC)


Can somebody edit that Wikimedia needs your help thingey at the top? It's a bit US-centric to have the amount raised in USD only - how about an approximate Euro total? Dmn Դմն 00:31, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

Okay, I did it, anyone can revert me if they don't like it. — Ilγαηερ (Tαlκ) 01:13, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
I like it, but now we need Canadian dollars, and pounds, and pesos, and yen and Mardi Gras beads, etc... Dmcdevit·t 01:23, August 28, 2005 (UTC)
Most Canadians will be able to understand USD, most europeans (including brits) pretty much use EUR as a standard now. As for pesos, yen, mardi gras beans, etc. why? We're an english encyclopedia. Not mexican, japanese, or ...whatever. If those wikipedias want to do that, then fine... — Ilγαηερ (Tαlκ) 01:46, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
It was mostly a joke (you know, Mardi Gras comment). But I don't realy agree with you about "we're an english encyclopedia." We're an encyclopedia in English, but one for everone, even Mexicans and Japanese, etc. Besides, I think most of the EU doesn't speak English (primarily) any mor than the others. Dmcdevit·t 03:20, August 28, 2005 (UTC)

How'd you edit it? Howabout1 Talk to me! 02:40, August 28, 2005 (UTC)

  • I'm not too worried about that message. The servers are in Florida and the board has made their plan in dollars. It would make sense for donations to be noted in dollars too. If we want to be totally neutral about it, there's not enough room to mention all currencies of regular wikipedians. - Mgm|(talk) 08:06, August 28, 2005 (UTC)
  • Like I said above, you don't have to. England is slowly moving into Euros. Ireland already has them. The US uses USD, canadians have to convert from USD all the time anyways, and the other countries, as I said before are not english-speaking and therefore we have less of an 'audience' (if you will) from thsoe countries. And it was done by editing MediaWiki: Sitenotice (only admins can do it). — Ilγαηερ (Tαlκ) 15:18, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
  • You left out Australia and New Zealand. JIP | Talk 12:42, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

Hey, where'd my previous messages here go? — Ilγαηερ (Tαlκ) 14:09, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

what, exactly, does "thumb" do in an image link?

In this example: [[Image:Lange-MigrantMother02.jpg|250px|thumb|[[Dorothea Lange]] what does the word thumb do? At first I thought it meant "make the image a standard thumb size" but a size is already specified by "250px". Don't they contradict each other?

Read the Wikipedia:Picture tutorial (I wrote it) Long story short - thumb (by itself) tells the picture to go to a certain predetermined size (200 pixels, I think) along with a border for a caption. If you give it both thumb and a size, then it goes to whatever size you told it to along with the border for a caption. Frame forces it to use the original size (and ignored any size arguements you pass it), as well as having a border for a caption. I know this sounds complicated, but it's really not. →Raul654 01:44, August 28, 2005 (UTC)

what, exactly, does "thumb" do in an image link?

In this example: [[Image:Lange-MigrantMother02.jpg|250px|thumb|[[Dorothea Lange]] what does the word thumb do? At first I thought it meant "make the image a standard thumb size" but a size is already specified by "250px". Don't they contradict each other? CDA 01:40, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

[[Image:example.png]] turns into Example.png

[[Image:example.png|thumb]] becomes


. Does this help? Howabout1 Talk to me! 02:37, August 28, 2005 (UTC)

If someone adds thumb to an image then why would they also add "250px"? I see a lot of images like that. It seems like you would want one or the other.

I always thought the main purpose of "thumb" was to frame the picture, and thus also allow a caption. I think it's the only way. You don't need to use "thumb" as a size function at all, unless that happens to be the size you want as well. Dmcdevit·t 03:32, August 28, 2005 (UTC)
You can size both types of images...look:
Thumbed image...and thus with caption (note both images are sized to the same size
See? Both images can have the size argument! — Ilγαηερ (Tαlκ) 03:58, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

That's what I wanted to know. Thanks everyone. CDA 04:07, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

The "frame" term also allows for the text, but does not allow the sizing. Therefore, you need to use the "thumb" term if you want text AND sizing. Johntex 22:26, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

non-working pipes

I noticed that non-linking pipes (page was probably moved or deleted, I assume?) appear in read.

Is it responsible editing to un-link these non-functioning links?

Thanks, --KBecks 02:46, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

Editors will redlink usually if they intend to eventually write an article pertaining to the link. That being said, it doesn't always happen (I'm as guilty as anyone, the best of intentions and all that). If there has been a redlink in an article I follow for quite a while, I will usually unlink them. It is a very easy thing to re-link them, so no one should complain. Fire Star 03:59, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
These red links are not broken; they're just articles which haven't yet been written which at least one person though should be written. They should only be delinked if you are sure there should never be an article with that title. Angela. 06:26, August 28, 2005 (UTC)
Please do not unlink film/book/album titles. It's a pain to go around to all the articles of actors/musicians/authors and such that have worked on a project and link titles. It's nice to have the red link because then when the article is written, it simply changes colors. Dismas 14:19, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

Importing the Quran and Hadith

Hello, I have successfully imported all of the Quran (Arabic and English) as well as Bukhari and Muslim haidth. I have two questions.

1. What is the best way for me to transfer from my wiki to this wiki? As there are thousands of pages. Each verse of the quran and each individual hadith is created as a "Template" so they can easily be imported into other Articles. What are the pros and cons of this strategy? 2. Is there a way to protect the content of all of this from change? These are direct Arabic transcriptions as well as long agreed upon translations. My concern is that this text is not meant to be changed or edited and I fear that some trolls will do just that.

If anybody wants to help me with this, please get in touch with me on my talk page.

-- 03:32, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

Please don't import those to Wikipedia. Perhaps Wikisource would be a better place, though check that they don't already exist there first. Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not a place for primary source texts. Angela. 06:26, August 28, 2005 (UTC)

I don't think you can guarantee that nobody will edit it on Wikisource, either. And please be sure that the translations are not copyrighted. Zoe 07:24, August 28, 2005 (UTC)

Suicide Bridge

Upon trying to edit a misnamed bridge under the suicide bridge entry, I noticed that I am not able to edit the first part of the article. I only seem to be able to edit the References. Why is this? I'm still new and getting the hang of things, but there is an entry there that I would like to fix because the bridge listed links to another page that does nt yet have any info, and I was planning on contributing, but what is the point of updating one article, if one of the main articles that references it is flawed and I can't change it?

Thank in advance for any help or insight you can offer. Suicide Bridge is only one of many entries I am having this issue with...

The first section never has an edit link at the side, but you can click the edit tab at the top of the page to edit the whole page. Angela. 06:26, August 28, 2005 (UTC)

Editing an article's title


I just created an article for the Council for Excellence in Government. The problem is that I mistakenly entitled it "Council for excellence" when I was first starting the article. Can a moderator please change the article title to "Council for Excellence in Government?"

Thanks for your help,

Andrew Straw

If you create an account, you will have the option to move pages to new titles. I've moved Council for Excellence in Government for you. Angela. 06:26, August 28, 2005 (UTC)
  • However, do remember that you'll have to do some other edits along the way. It won't be immediately available. This helps combat move vandalism. - Mgm|(talk) 07:56, August 28, 2005 (UTC)

Friends of gays

Isn't there an article called something like Wikipedia:Friends of gays shouldn't be allowed to edit or something like that? I was thinking of creating something similar called Wikipedia:Men with large penises shouldn't be allowed to edit. Zoe 07:22, August 28, 2005 (UTC)


i am searching for a picture of a flower called jasmine. can you help me?

Capitalisation changes the results

Hi there,

This should go on the General Complaints page, however I can't see a link to do so, despite that page saying "Ask your questions at the bottom." Um, huh?? Bottom of what? Certainly not that page.

Nevertheless, my actual complaint is:

Do a search here for "Sarah bernhardt" with a lowercase B (which I did by highlighting those words on an external web page & using Firefox plugins to automatically search here at Wikipedia) -- and you are told: "Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name."

Search for "Sarah Bernhardt", however, (note capital B) and you find the relevant info.

This is appalling!!

One must assume this is a massive oversight by your developers, and certainly is extremely UN-user-friendly. Your search engine should NOT be case sensitive.

What's the point, otherwise?

Cheers webgirl

Wikipedia article titles are case sensitive. This is necessary to differentiate between different uses of the same words, some capitalized and some not. Since nobody's last name starts with a lower case letter, you should search for capitalized letters at the beginnings of names. Zoe 09:40, August 28, 2005 (UTC)

...And, as I said, I did the search using plugins. Not by actually typing in the letters. If you were aiming for a useful tool your search would return all matching hits. Differentiating based on capitalisation or lack thereof is counter-intuitive & extremely UN-user-friendly. Defending it as you've done doesn't change the fact that your methods are just plain wrong, and, gotta be said, really stupid.

Searching by pasting "Sarah bernhardt" into the search box on Wikipedia returns the right article. Perhaps your concerns are better directed at the writer of the plugin. Rudeness towards those that are trying to help you refine your search is not helpful. Good luck in your research - given that you've downloaded and installed Plugins to search here (even I haven't done that), it seems our credibility with you is still intact :) --inks 10:56, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

I mean, honestly, what is the point of returning one page for a search?? You seriously think your search engine is equipped to decide which single page is the one I'm looking for? As shown by my example -- most definitely not. It's missing by a mile.

Also -- you are wrong in stating that "nobody's last name starts with a lower case letter". While technically correct, there are notable exceptions, k.d. lang being the most well known.

Additionally, there are surnames such as "de Something", or "von Something", where the surname begins with a lowercase letter. The "de" is the first part of the surname, not a middle name.

Your system is just plain flawed, and while it's like this, the credibility of Wikipedia is compromised in a big way.

  • Did you click search or go? If you click Go you are immediately taken to the article of the title you typed, if you click search, the system will do a search on similar things. At least that's what should happen. When I typed in "Sarah bernhardt" and clicked GO, I was immediately sent to the correct page without being redirected. - 11:00, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
  • The search box is for actual articles only. If you enter a name that isn't the name of an article it won't find it. The actual searching part is disable for performance issue, until the servers can be upgraded enough to provide it. For now you can use google like this:
Sarah bernhardt

And it will find the article. Elfguy 11:02, 28 August 2005 (UTC)


(fmtted for easy reading, originally posted as three seperate headers by User: - 11:04, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
I want to gather information along with photographs on cinema hall or theathres in india.

Lockerbie bombing

Does nobody remember the Comet disasters of the 50`s? Those aircraft broke up due to metal fatigue causing the pressure skin to rupture. The effect is just like a bomb. It was immediately assumed that the Lockerbie crash was caused by a bomb and no suggestion of structural failure was ever made. I understand BA withdrew some 747s in the 80`s for urgent repairs after cracks were found, following a warning from Boeing. If such an accident were to occur it is most likely to happen to an old 747 at maximum weight at top of climb as it attained cruise speed in turbulent conditions. All these factors apply in the Lockerbie case. In view of all the inconsistencies in the prosecution case and the news today of an allegation that the CIA planted evidence, does anyone have incontravertible proof that a bomb caused the Lockerbie disaster?

  • At wikipedia, we write about what is publicly known. About the 1950 comet accidents, I certainly remember a BOAC Comet that desinegrated over India. An airplane book I own had the distaste of publishing a photo of the crash with dead bodies, eyes opened and all!!!! Antonio Fast Laner Martin 13:52 (UTC) 29 August, 2005
    • A factual inquiry like this one should be placed on the Reference desk, where you may get a better reply. Having said that, have you looked at our article Pan Am Flight 103. There appears to be plenty of evidence pointing towards a bomb, specifcally this section. --Commander Keane 13:02, August 28, 2005 (UTC)
      • My understanding of the Flight 103 controversy (being on the "conspiracy theory" side, unusually) is that the major dispute is over whether the guy convicted did it (or indeed if his country did it), not over whether or not it was a bomb. I am unaware of anyone seriously suggesting that there wasn't a terrorist attack, either now or at the time. Shimgray 13:45, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

Society of St. Pius X

Can other administrators, other than me, please keep an eye on Society of St. Pius X? Some anonymous user keeps placing point of view statements here. Antonio the Defense Martin

French President email

Dear Sirs , I'm trying to get the emailof the french President but I can' find it on any web site !!!! Can u help me in this matter ? Regards, Hisham Zeineldein

I didn't find it either, but there's a web-based form to contact the President at . JIP | Talk 13:22, 28 August 2005 (UTC)


i will like to know the website

What web site? Notinasnaid 13:39, 28 August 2005 (UTC)— Ilγαηερ (Tαlκ) 14:09, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

differentiating trigonometric functions

Why radian measure should be used while differentiating a trigonometric function?

Because it gives simpler results. You can do it with degree measure, but then you end up with a constant factor of . I don't know why this is so, but I have verified in mathematics class that it indeed happens. Note that radians are a "natural" measure - equal to the radius of the circle - whereas degrees are an arbitrary human invention. JIP | Talk 14:55, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

External links


I have a couple of questions re: external links

1) Are placing links to sites with content that have Google Adsense on them a violation of Wikipedia's policy?

2) Are adding links to your own site a violation of wiki's policy?

I see alot of sites doing both. If the answer is "yes" to one or both I would appreciate a detailed explanation.

Thank You

In short, it's: 1. No 2. Yes. External links are offered because they are used for references, or offer extra information that is really relevant. Your own page could ofcourse live up to this, but it's best to let someone else judge. Ask yourself: Why am I adding this link? If it contributes to the article subject, and it cannot be cited or incorporated, then link to it. If you answer "because wikipedia gives me more hits/readers", then don't link to it.— Sverdrup 15:14, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

Is there a solar energy or renewable energy category?

Is there a solar energy category? Is there a renewable energy category?

A solar generator has just been developed in Florida using automatically adjusting solar cells that search out the strongest rays of the sun and capture five times the energy as previous models.The generator can run appliances such as refrigerator, electric lights, lawn mower or golf cart. It was developed at Florida Atlantic University's Office of Technology Transfer by Professor Roger Messenger and graduate student Max Saelzer. They have filed for a patent on the invention It was reported in the Palm Beach Post. the inventors say the real goal is to move the technology from the laboratory to the marketplace.

Incorrect Information: Bishops of Liège

It's not really clear where to make a complaint/comment about incorrect information, so maybe I am in the wrong place. But I am tired of searching this site trying to figure it out.

Under Bishops of Liège, you will find the following:

Frederick of Namur (1119-1121) Albero I of Louvain (1122-1128) (PROBABLY WRONG) Alexander I (1128-1135) Albero II of Chiny-Namur (1135-1145) Henry II of Leez (1145-1164) Alexander II (1164-1167) Ralph of Zähringen (1167-1191) Saint Albert of Louvain (1191-1192)

There is a link for Albero I of Louvain (1122-1128), which takes you to:

"Albero I or Albert of Louvain (c. 1166, Brabant - November 24th 1202, Reims), son of Duke Godfrey III of Brabant was Bishop of Liège from 1191 until his murder."

So something is seriously wrong. I doubt there ever was an Albero I of Louvain who was bishop 1122-1128.

According to the Catholic Encyclopedia:

"Albert of Louvain was elected Bishop of Liège in 1191, but Emperor Henry VI, on the pretext that the election was doubtful, gave the see to Lothair of Hochstadt. Albert's election was confirmed by the pope, and he was consecrated, but was assassinated at Reims, in 1192, by three German knights. It is probable that the emperor was privy to this murder, the victim of which was canonized."

The book "De Nederlandse Munten: by Dr. H. Enno van Gelder has a list of bishops which does not include anyone named Albert of Louvain (probably because they didn't mint any coins). But the no one is listed for the dates 1122-1128, nor for 1191-1194.


According to the Catholic Encyclopedia:

The violent death of Henry of Namur (1119-21) won for him veneration as a martyr. Alexander of Juliers (1128-34) received at Liège the pope, the emperor, and St. Bernard.

van Gelder lists:

FREDERIK of Namen (Namur)(1119-1121) Alexander of Gulik (Juliers) (1128-1134)

so I don't know if it's really Frederik or Henry. I trust van Gelder, so I suspect it's Frederik. (Wikipedia says Frederrik)

But that Albert/Albero for 1122-1128 is way wrong.

Dear sir or madam:
You yourself are welcome to rewrite the article in order to correct it, so long as the corrections are written by you, not copied from another source. I strongly suggest you register first so others can communicate with you. Also, your remarks above are suitable for the "talk" page of the article; I suggest you copy them there, then start rewriting the article. Paul Klenk 19:13, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
To expand on Paul Klenk's remarks, you can get started on editing after reading the directions at Wikipedia:How to edit a page. You might also leave a note with User:Essjay on his talk page; he's a scholar of Catholicism and might be able to fix up the entries in question. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 18:37, 29 August 2005 (UTC)



First of all, I think that Wikipedia is a great resource and I have used it many times. I just wanted to point out that in English, the name of Wikipedia is "Wikipedia: The Free Encyclopedia" and in Spanish it is "Wikipedia: La enciclopedia libre". In English, the implication of the word "free" is that there is no charge and anyone can edit the articles. In Spanish, however, the word "libre" means free as in "free of bondage" or "at liberty." Therefore, the best translation would be "Wikipedia: La enciclopedia gratuita" because the word "gratuita" means "free" as in "free of charge."

Thanks for your consideration!

I don't know much about Spanish, but according to your description, wouldn't "gratuita" mean "free beer" and "libre" mean "free speech"? There are lots of "free beer" encyclopedias available on the WWW, but this is the most famous "free speech" one. There are lots of encyclopedias you don't have to pay to read, but much fewer ones you can edit yourself. JIP | Talk 16:53, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
Also, try asking on the Spanish Wikipedia. We can't do anything about it here. Dmcdevit·t 17:29, August 28, 2005 (UTC)
I think in French it's translated as "l'encyclopédie libre et gratuite", that is, "the free (as in speech) and free (as in beer) encyclopaedia", which would be more accurate. It could be translated as "libre y gratuita" in Spanish as well... --Fibonacci 17:34, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia search

Wikipedia search is disabled for performance reasons. You can search via Google or Yahoo! in the meantime. Note that their indexes of Wikipedia content may be out of date. If the search term contains an underscore, change it into a space.

Why do I get this message sometimes? Is it really necessary to disable search? Google and Yahoo! do not have the latest articles.  Thorpe talk 17:19, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

  • Yep, it's neccesary. Allowing searching asks a lot of the servers and disabling the search is one of the ways developers can ensure smooth operation of editing. Readers won't care for this much, but far out the majority of the visitors come here to edit and Wikipedia's growth depends on it, so that's why we prefer to disable search instead of fully crashing the server. - Mgm|(talk) 18:01, August 28, 2005 (UTC)
  • Note that the Wikipedia search has it's downsides too; it doesn't either have all the latest articles (updated approx each day, I think), and it's free text search is quite inferior to popular web search engines. — Sverdrup 23:13, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
I'm sure it does index a page as soon as it is submitted.  Thorpe talk 11:51, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

discuss okot p'bitek's use of imagery in the poem song of lawino


    I will like you to give me answer to the above question :

discuss okot p'bitek's use of imagery in the poem song of lawino

because there was an arquement between me and my friends,so i have to tell them that i will find out so u can contact me on,so that i can be able to win this up with my friends.

Thank you, Best Regards, Vivian.

using a fairuse picture

can i use a picture that is titled fairuse in a book? if not- how can i find the owner of the copyrights of the picture? i specifically reffer to the picture- Ap munich905 t.jpg.

It depends. Use of a fair use picture (or quote) depends on a supporting rationale for the specific use being made of it. See Fair use for more details. Generally for fair use to be valid you must at the minimum credit the original source. The fact that something is (or is claimed to be) fair use on Wikipedia does not mean it would be in your proposed book. DES (talk) 18:16, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
This is a complicated area, and mistakes can be expensive. You should place this matter in the hands of your publisher, who will probably have responsibility and must be fully informed. You should also make sure you understand the quality issues: images suitable for the web are not usually suitable for book printing. Notinasnaid 22:05, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

Editing a Page

I saw some information on one of the pages that I updated. However, when I pushed the save changes button, the page was as before. What must I do to make sure that my changes to a page take?

Many thanks in advance.


Often your changes are there, but your browser is not showing you the changes. Please see Wikipedia:Troubleshooting. -- Rick Block (talk) 18:56, August 28, 2005 (UTC)
Some changes don't always show up immediately to logged out users, because they are "cached" to save effort for the servers - the change is probably there, it's just that you personally can't see it yet. See Wikipedia:Bypass your cache, or you could create an account, which should eliminate most such problems (you don't need to provide anything more than a username and password, and you get recognisable credit for all your edits). - IMSoP 18:58, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

Changing the title of an article

You have an article entitled 'Birmingham and Worcester Canal'; the canal is actually called the 'Worcester and Birmingham Canal'. I have changed some references to the canal but cannot change the title of the article; how do I do it?

  • First you need to register and sign in. You need to click the move tab on top of the page. If you haven't got that tab, you're too new an editor to perform moves as a precaution to move vandals. In that case, you can ask other people on requested moves or contact one of the administrators (like me). - Mgm|(talk) 19:04, August 28, 2005 (UTC)
Wow, this seems to be a real FAQ on this page; in short, see Help:Moving (renaming) a page, you'll need to log in, and you may need to wait and edit normally a while so the software knows you're not a vandal. In this case, however, you'll need an editor entrusted with "sysop"/"administrator" privileges to delete/overwrite the old versions in the history of Worcester and Birmingham Canal first; see Wikipedia:Requested moves - IMSoP 19:07, 28 August 2005 (UTC) [typed simultaneous to Mgm's]

Movie files

I've taken an .avi movie file of some gaita players and would like to upload it. Are movie clips permitted? The file is about 1.7 megabytes. In either case, would someone be able to 1) shrink or compress it and 2) rotate it 90 degrees (my camera refuses to do so)? - Montréalais 19:20, 28 August 2005 (UTC) (currently in Santiago de Compostela)

Of course, we love free multimedia! But it seems the supply is low; the English Wikipedia doesn't even have a Video policy; one of the few sources for this is meta:Video policy.
Since you made this piece of media yourself, you should definitely upload it to Wikimedia Commons, the common source for media (you can then include it here, easily). However, then you'd have to follow their policies. The only thing I can find after a shallow look is their page on File types, which states that OGG Theora is the only accepted file format for video.
The only thing this means, is some technical difficulties for the creator (you!). You'll have to find someone to recieve the file and convert it to the appropriate format. I'm quite sure though, as movies are precious and rare, that someone would like to help you if you asked in the right place (ask around here, on irc and on commons. Try to find and catch a video-savvy user). Good luck! — Sverdrup 23:54, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

List of user-edited towns?

Somewhere, there was a list of US towns that had articles (or needed them, too, I think), that had been created independently, without the census additions from Rambot. Can't seem to find it anymore, where is it? Tim Rhymeless (Er...let's shimmy) 21:42, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

Infobox question

Is there a way to format the infobox at George Bush Intercontinental Airport so that it doesn't stretch the (copyvio?) picture at the top out of purportion?

Alr 22:03, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

Yes, there is but the wikitext won't look as good. The text that inserts the image is {{Airport image|airport_image=Header left.jpg |}}. To solve it, import the text by using {{subst:Airport image|airport_image=Header left.jpg |}} and saving. Then change 200px to the actual width of the image. I will do this now. — Sverdrup 23:07, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
result — Sverdrup 23:09, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
Thank you! Alr 23:22, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

ode to billy joe

i would like to know where it was filmed the one with robbie benson contact me at

  • See the IMDB page on its filming locations. I'll shoot off an email now. - Mgm|(talk) 07:55, August 29, 2005 (UTC)

Amioderone Dosing

I tried to add some info regarding dosing from personal experience. Although the info was accepted at first, it is not there now. What did I do wrong?

I suppose your edit was this one. It was quite quickly followed by another edit that removed your changes (this revert). If you follow the link you can read the editor's comments. He/She was saying:
rv unwise personal idea - you may only find out when you've been resuscitated from your ventricular tachycardia
It may also be noted that the use of personal experience and dialogue style is not directly accepted in an encyclopedia, although the sentence sureley would have passed with some "re-alignment" :)
HTH — Sverdrup 00:06, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

Sanitising for school access


Is it possible to sanitise content within Wikipedia for profane language, for example , for use within a Primary school. We would like to use this resource as its probably more complete then any encyclopedia we currently have access to, but we need to make sure that things that parents might object to cannot be viewed easly


John Bradshaw

Wikipedia is not censored for the protection of minors, but there are some workarounds you could put in place. Do you use standard blocking software? If so, this should be able to block certain pages, using keywords, and leave the rest open; speak to your IT staff. However, we have no rating system in place, nor do we plan to introduce one.
Alternately, you could try using an offline version. We have a database dump available from about two months ago (hopefully a newer one will come soon); you could set this up on a local machine at the school, then search through for any potentially objectionable pages and delete those. This should be relatively easy on a local site (search for "cunt", delete; search for "fuck", delete; and so forth; we also have a list of most of the potentially objectionable images kicking around somewhere). The disadvantage of this approach is that it is no longer "current", no longer being updated - we've gone to 700,000 articles, from 600,000 at the time of the database dump - but it does mean you don't have to worry about vandalism (we had someone yesterday splashing pictures of erect penises across a couple of thousand pages using templates). Swings and roundabouts. This would mean you're not sanitising Wikipedia itself, but rather a localised version of it - which, handily, is perfectly legal under the GFDL.
Are either of those helpful options? Shimgray 00:43, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

Shimgray, Thanks for the info it would probably work for us but if your talking 600K articles at say 20K each thats 12GB of DB which would be a fairly power server even if its just our school access so it might be best to try to filter. Bearing that inmind is it possible to suggest to the 'powers that be' some sort of Family Filter similar to google, where you actively have to click off or view if someone considers this to be unsafe material. Similar to the 'This content is controversial' options that you can have on entries into the encyclopedia? Machtzu 02:53, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

It's 23GB for text, plus another 17GB for images. So your estimation was lowball - those 600K articles don't include the other pages; we have about 2,000,000 pages (see Special:Statistics) once you start including things like... well, like this page. (On the other hand, think of the bragging rights! You'd be publishing your own in-house encyclopedia...)
As for filtering, whilst we don't try and prevent people using third-party filtering software (Censorware), the project has in the past been strongly resistant to adapting itself to filter on first principles whenever it's suggested. You have the misfortune to come about two weeks after a massive protracted fight over "decency" and "standards", which didn't do anyone any good to say the least, so people are a bit touchy just now about this topic - there were a lot of misunderstandings, and about three seperate groups trying to push through agendas under various pretexts. Community opinion, um, reacted strongly and enthusiastically, shall we say...
Fundamentally, though, the opinion of the powers that be is that this is an encyclopedia, so "unsafe material" is a bit of a misnomer -
I think that's exactly the right approach. Contrary to common impressions, I don't think even very conservative parents in the deep south of the US (my own upbringing, you see) have a problem at all with a serious and respectful article like 'clitoris' with a useful illustration. (Jimbo Wales, wikien-l, 18th April)
- our real problem is with that illustration appearing in articles on the U.S. presidential election, 1872. In a well-written encyclopedia, you should be able to handle pretty much anything without it becoming "unsafe", in the appropriate places.
Anyhow, for various reasons inherent to the project and the culture from which it grew, there is very little chance of it ever being filtered like this at our end, except for some of the most "extreme" images. People don't particularly object to people reading it "with blinders on", but they get very angry if they themselves have to help hold the blinders.
Your best bet is to find a good piece of filtering software - if you have internet access open to the pupils, you almost certainly have some of this - and try it on Wikipedia. This certainly handles the "bad words" problem; the "bad images" problem is another matter entirely, but note that Wikipedia editors are usually sensible and tasteful individuals - those images are almost invariably restricted to appropriate articles, and keyword filtering should take care of those.
I'm afraid I can't give any advice on good software - however, plenty of schools should have faced the problem of trying to choose filtering software in the past, so ask around. Best of luck! Shimgray 03:35, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

unblocking "possible copyright violation"

I wrote an Wikipedia entry for "J.X. Williams" and it was promptly blocked as a "possible copyright violation". I am in charge of the J.X. Williams estate and I am absolutely positive that there is no such violation. Who investigates these supposed violations and how can they be unblocked?

I spent a significant amount of time writing this entry and it is very frustrating to have it anonymously blocked without cause.


My suggestion would be for you to post a note on the Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard or to talk with the user who added the violation tag. Alr 01:08, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

Because the user adding {{copyvio}} failed to provide a source for the violation, the tag will go away soon enough(though not that soon with the current backlog). To state your case that it is not a copyvio, go to Wikipedia:Copyright_problems#Suspected_copyright_infringements_without_online_source. Superm401 | Talk 01:31, August 29, 2005 (UTC)
On the talk page, another user did provide a source link: this site. A few points:
  • The copyright violation was not done anonymously. It was done by Gamaliel, as you can see on the page's history. (Go to the page and click the "history" tab.)
  • Merely having permission to post copyrighted text is not good enough. You must also document this permission. Further, you must have permission to release the text under the GNU Free Documentation License, which means roughly that the copyright owner gives up all rights to the copy of the text posted on Wikipedia.
  • The blessing of Mr. Williams's estate does not give one the right to make use of someone else's copyrighted text about him.
Putting all this together, I would say that Gamaliel acted properly, although it would have been nice if he had explained what he was doing.
Nowhither 04:30, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

Error in wikipedia + general comment

I dunno if this is the right place, my email didn't seem to fall into a category. I'd firstly like to say that the comment about Pat Robertson was made on the monday before you list it was, and that if those bastards are abusing your quality service, You have my and everybody I know's support in fucking them up. Seriously, you've got something truly awesome, and it's being marred by greedy, narcissist wankers who are trying to compensate for their lack of testicles. Thank you.

Please ask questions in English. Thanks.
I think what he meant to say is thanks. --IByte 02:15, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

John Howard page

I'm not totally sure if this is the correct place to report this - but someone is obviously contributing irrelevant and bizzare information to the article about the Australian Prime Minister John Howard. I do not know how to restore the article. Any assitance would be appreciated.

This seems to have been garden variety vandalism, and has been reverted. If you'd like to learn how to do this yourself (and we can use all the help we can get) please see Wikipedia:revert. Thanks for reporting the problem. -- Rick Block (talk) 03:26, August 29, 2005 (UTC)

way to tell if another registered user is logged in?

Is there a way to tell if another registered user is logged in? -- Sitearm | Talk 02:59, 2005 August 29 (UTC)

To my knowlege, that feature is not in our wiki software. Alr 03:01, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
Perhaps not what you're looking for, but you can always leave a message on their talk page and see if they reply. -- Rick Block (talk) 03:21, August 29, 2005 (UTC)
You can also look at their contribution list, and see if there is anything very recent. — Nowhither 05:34, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
By the way, is the original question even meaningful? What does "logged in" mean, in the context of Wikipedia? I haven't entered my user ID on this machine for a while; it's in a cookie. Does that mean I've been continuously "logged in" for days, even while my computer was turned off? I doubt that this matches what Sitearm was thinking. — Nowhither 10:22, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for quick responses! I "get" the short answer is "no". To respond to Nowhither, I am thinking of another user forum I use, where a green light shows by my user id when I have the site up in a browse window and am logged in. I asked on the premise I could put a note on a Wikipedian's talk page, as Rick Block mentioned, with a higher possibility of a quick response. Redwolf24 has an icon he puts on his talk page when he's "out", and I was checking to see if there was a technique other than just manually changing the graphic when "in" vs. "out". Thanks! -- Sitearm | Talk 15:43, 2005 August 29 (UTC)
A lot of particularly prolific editors are often on IRC at much the same time as they edit - you could always look there if you're trying to get in touch with them. Otherwise, the best approach is to glance at Special:Contributions. Shimgray 23:14, 29 August 2005 (UTC)


I want to post Wikipedia materials (= search result of some topics) and their foreign language translation at my website. Do GFDL, GNU-GPL and Wikipedia require any particular prior consent and/or permission? Do I have to specify the origin like courtesy:Wikipedia on each material? Could the above foreign language translation be uploaded sometime later?

First, Wikipedia articles are covered only under the GFDL, not the GPL. And the permission you seek has already been given, in the GFDL. I suggest you read Wikipedia:Copyrights. There are two ways to post Wikipedia articles: a "verbatim copy" and a "derived work". I imagine the translations you mention would be considered a derived work. Basically, you can post modified copies of a Wikipedia article as long as:
  • The modified article is licensed under the GFDL.
  • The authorship of the article is acknowledged (it comes from Wikipedia, etc.).
  • The modified article is distributed in an open format (the GFDL uses the word "transparent"). So HTML is generally fine. MS-Word probably is not.
Again, read Wikipedia:Copyrights for the details.
Nowhither 05:31, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

Email notification if user changes a talk page

Is there a way by which we get a notification through email if the user changes a talk page? Please mail me answer at

  • Not that I know of. - Mgm|(talk) 10:30, August 29, 2005 (UTC)

Treble One Squadron

The above mentioned page shows a picture of the adge of Number 111 (Fighter) Squadron of the Royal Air Force. The badge which is copyrighted property is incorrect and shows the number of the squadron as 111, whereas it should be written in the Roman Numerals CXI. Please correct this error which, as a former member of this squadron with an illustrious history, I find offensive. Yours truly, Andrew M. Ockenden

  • This is a wiki, which means anyone can edit it. You are welcome to correct the article yourself. JIP | Talk 07:43, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
Well, this problem is with an image, and one that's not under a very nice license, so this might be tricky to correct. So ... if you look at the image's description page, you can see that the image is credited to the Royal Air Force Marham Station website. (That's interesting; I would think an official Air Force website would get the image right.) However, Squadron 111 doesn't seem to be stationed at Marham anymore, and I couldn't find the image on that website. The image was uploaded by user "H1523702". That user page redirects to Mark83, and Mark83 is active (50+ contributions in the past week). So probably the thing to do is ask Mark83. I'll go ahead and put a note on Mark83's talk page. — Nowhither 08:45, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
From uploader: I think Andrew M. Ockenden needs to contact the RAF as it would seem to be either his or their mistake. Both the source page, and the official RAF squadron page [9] show the badge with numerical "111s". Mark83 (H1523702 from March 2004 to April 2005) 09:48, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

Fishy Red Sea question

what kind of fish in the red sea?

Hello, this page is for questions about Wikipedia. For general factual information, please see Wikipedia's Reference desk. Notinasnaid 12:21, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

Peter Orlovsky

Please correct the spelling of my name in the above entry from Robert LaVinge to Robert La Vigne.

thank You

Robert La Vigne

  • You could've done so yourself, you know. Maybe Wikipedia:How to edit a page is helpful to you, in the mean time, I'll go and have a look at the article and see if it still needs changing. - Mgm|(talk) 11:30, August 29, 2005 (UTC)

Help editing monobook.css

Hello, my monobook.css alteration is at User:Jbaber/monobook.css

If you load it temorarily, you can see what I'm trying to do. I'd basically like all background to be #222222 and all text to be #AAAAAA I've robotically replaced a lot of colors which probably causes some problems which I'll fix later. My real question is, why is some stuff still white? There are no 'FFFFFF' or 'white' things in the entire css file, but there are still some things which are white. Is this from the mysterious class ns-2 ? Is there any way for me to fix this? Thanks in advance --Jbaber 12:15, August 29, 2005 (UTC)

  • Try using lower-case letters. - Mgm|(talk) 12:49, August 29, 2005 (UTC)

Lower-case for the #AAAAAA ? I don't think that should make any difference. But I'll try it for good measure... --Jbaber 10:47, August 30, 2005 (UTC)

Nope, that didn't work. Any other ideas? --Jbaber 10:53, August 30, 2005 (UTC)

About Rawalpindi

Assalamulaikum, I want to ask you a question that is!What is the old name of Rawalpindi? Thanks! Allah Hafiz. from, Ayaz Kayani.

The Rawalpindi article says it's also known as "Pindi". Alf 12:54, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

"What links here" mystery

Bob & Chantal from RopeMarks recently wrote an article about their website RopeMarks. When I checked the "what links here" page, it mysteriously shows Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Log/2005 April 15, but I can't find anything on that page that looks even remotely like it might link to RopeMarks. Is this a bug in the Wikipedia database? JIP | Talk 12:39, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

It does indeed link to that page. Wikipedia:Votes_for_deletion/Log/2005_April_15#RopeMarks. I tagged it for speedy deletion as the consensus last time was to delete. --Andy Janata 12:49, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
Ah, now I see. I must have missed it the first time around. Well, seeing as the new article also reads like an advertisement, I think it should be deleted, or replaced with a considerably shorter one. JIP | Talk 12:53, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

Auto-loggoff problems


Problem: Wikipedia is often logging me out before I have the time to complete an edit. Thus, many of my posts are unsigned.

Question: How do I configure wikipedia not to log me off?

Yours, Dpotop

Usually, you stay logged in until you close your browser of it you have selected the option to keep you logged in all the time it should be forever. Is your browser denying cookies from this site?  Thorpe talk 14:10, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

Adding multiple pages at once to my watchlist

Is there a way / script / trick to add multiple pages to my watchlist at once? Say I wanted to follow all the updates of subjects related to Artificial Intelligence, how could somebody define a watchlist so I can follow all the updates to these topics by clicking on a single link? --anon

You'll have to do each article one by one unless an upgrade to the software allows this.  Thorpe talk 14:11, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
You can't do this directly, but there are some creative ways to use the "Related changes" tool. Bovlb 14:27:58, 2005-08-29 (UTC)

i am having a problem accesing a page

this issue has been coming up alot on fark.

is this page shut down or what?


That site has nothing to do with Wikipedia, so you'll have to ask whoever does run it. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 16:21, August 29, 2005 (UTC)

actually it was wiki. well looked exactly like wiki. so maybe you have to talk to someone. or maybe you already have so thats why its not there.

Whilst it may be running MediaWiki, that doesn't mean we're responsible for it - the software is offered for free and used by a wide variety of sites. I'm afraid I can't tell who that was, although it seems to resolve to a server hosted by - you could ask them? Shimgray 17:25, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

File links

Does the "File links" replaces the "What links here" for images. Why this complication? CG 16:27, August 29, 2005 (UTC)

  • I think it was because the What links here feature wasn't working properly on images. - Mgm|(talk) 07:54, August 30, 2005 (UTC)


What does (top) in the "User contributions" page means? CG 16:28, August 29, 2005 (UTC)

It means the listed edit is the most recent edit to the article. -- Rick Block (talk) 16:31, August 29, 2005 (UTC)
See also bugzilla:2727 (Special pages don't have keys/legends or help links). Bovlb 16:34:19, 2005-08-29 (UTC)

Wiktionary or Wikipedia

Does a lengthy discussion of the origins of a word, such as the article hubbub, belong in Wiktionary or Wikipedia? I was going to place a "move to wiktionary" template on it, but it doesn't seem right for a dictionary. No dictionary, not even the OED, includes that much information, presented in that way. Babajobu 18:22, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

  • If all the article has is etymology, it belongs in wiktionary. Wiktionary has unlimited space for lengthy discussions, unlike the OED. Kappa 18:32, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
    • Actually normally you shouldn't tag things to be moved to wiktionary if wiktionary already has an entry (wiktionary:hubbub) but since this article has a lot more content it should be ok. Kappa 18:36, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
      • Okay, thanks. It's tagged and ready to go. Who completes transwiki moves? Babajobu 18:42, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
        • You can. Copy it over there and say in the edit summary it's a transwiki from the en 'pedia. Then copy the edit history to the Wikt talk page. There's more complete rules at meta:transwiki. Dmcdevit·t 19:30, August 29, 2005 (UTC)

satellite details

I am not able to watch shalom TV in sultante of oman. Can you provide the details of satellite and tune frequency etc.


Mrs.Mini Michael

  • Please note that this page is meant for questions directly regarding Wikipedia. If you want a better chance at getting an answer. Please submit your question to the reference desk. - Mgm|(talk) 07:57, August 30, 2005 (UTC)

Translation of articles

Hallo, Is it possible (considering the copyright rules, etc.) to translate the articles from one language to another? For example, I want to write an article in Czech language. But I know, that the German Wikipedia has the same article in great quality. Can I just translate it into Czech? Thank you.

Absolutely! That kind of thing is quite helpful. Just say where it came from in the edit summary, and provide a link and the original article's edit history on the talk page. Dmcdevit·t 19:27, August 29, 2005 (UTC)
Speaking as someone who occasionally visits/uses/edits the Czech wikipedia, yes, please! Tim Rhymeless (Er...let's shimmy) 07:49, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Yes, that's always appreciated. Just make sure you don't solely rely on machine translations. Computers often get it wrong because they don't know much about context which human translators can interpret much better. - Mgm|(talk) 07:58, August 30, 2005 (UTC)
  • No problem, I can speak German very well :) Thank you for your answer.

Redirect page

I'd like to create a redirect page, but I can't seem to find how.


See Wikipedia:Redirect. Just out of curiosity, what needs to be redirected? Dismas 20:44, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

How to request an item if you don't even know the domain/subject.

It can happen (example below) that you want to know the details of something you really know anything about it. Wikipedia has the request article functionality but it assumes you know what the category is your request belongs to. Ono does not always know; how can i request an article without knowing the domain/calissification?

For example, I live in Cropthorne Court, London. I want to know what a cropthorne is; I have found a village with the same name, but that is not satisfactory. Maybe it is a biologigal term, referring to plants? Or is it an ancient crox (found trough google). Mirriam Webster doesn't know it either.

Can Wikipedia help me (in other words, how do I request an article on Cropthorne).

Thanks, Wijnand

Hello Wijnand, and welcome to Wikipedia. There are a number of methods for doing what you ask. I'll tell you what they are, however, I am afraid they will not help you much with "cropthorne"; I know, because I already tried them (except the last one).
First of all, just type "cropthorne" into the search box (typically on the left side of the window) and click "Go". This is the usual way to find Wikipedia articles. However, Wikipedia has no article on "cropthorne", so you get no results. But in the future, if you are looking for information on some other topic, this is a good way to begin.
Second, type "cropthorne" into the search box and click "Search". This takes you to a page that lets you use an external search engine to look for a word, words, or a phrase within Wikipedia articles. I did a Google search and found two articles: Giles Gilbert Scott and Hugh Edwin Strickland. The first article uses the word as part of the name of the building you live in (I guess). But you already knew about that. The second uses it as the name of some kind of substance in which fossils were found. Probably this substance was first dug up in the Cropthorne village area and named after it. So I do not think this is what you are looking for.
In short, Wikipedia is not going to help you this time. You can also do similar searches on Wiktionary, an online dictionary associated with Wikipedia. I tried. No success.
A site I have found useful is OneLook which is a general dictionary/encyclopedia search tool. It searches in many online resources (including Wikipedia). No luck there, either.
So, I suggest you find some kind of discussion group full of people who are knowedgeable about English history, and ask there. (I have not tried this.) Good luck.
Nowhither 07:56, 30 August 2005 (UTC)


greetings, I`m from Former Yugoslavia or serbia and montenegro and I`m a dentist of general practise and also dentist of forensic dentistry. at first please forgive me `couse my english is not quite good but I`ll try to explain what i need to know if you can help me I would like to know how poisoins have effects on teeth, did they leave any signs of their present in teeth and if they did how we can discover it and find it, did teeths change colors and if they do which poisons can do that,... in one word , can you please explain everything of poisoins and theirs connection with teeth

Best regards dr Srecko Mracevic''-- 21:59, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

  • Hello, thank you for visiting Wikipedia. This page is actually the help page for general questions about Wikipedia. The page for factual questions is at Wikipedia:Reference desk. However, I just took at quick look at Poison and Dentistry and neither had the information you are seeking. It is possible Wikipedia does not contain the bit of knowledge that you seek. (yet) Johntex 22:14, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
  • From the detective shows I've seen on television, I'm positive there's at least one poison with effect on the teeth, but I can't remember it's name...However, this article talks about the poisonous effects of amalgams to your health. - Mgm|(talk) 08:06, August 30, 2005 (UTC)

Can I use the first sentence of the definition for "jet set" on the back of my business card?

I want to use the first sentence of the "jet set" definition on the back of my business card. I don't have room to cite Wikipedia. Can I do that? --anon

I think your legal options are either:
  • Make your business card a derived work and include a full citation and a copy of the GFDL. You may have to use quite a small font.
  • Make a fair use quotation of Wikipedia, which probably requires citing the source, but may not require formal citation. E.g. "- Wikipedia" might do.
  • Find the authors of that sentence (e.g. see this version by Vlayceh) and ask them to either give you permission to use it or release it into the public domain. If you're very lucky, they already have notices on their user pages about dual licensing all contributions.
I would not advocate that you breach anyone's intellectual property rights, but I think it unlikely that you would get sued over this. I imagine that you will likely end up explaining to many people where you got the quotation from, which may end up spreading the word about Wikipedia.
I hope this helps. I am not a lawyer. This is not legal advice. Bovlb 05:11:19, 2005-08-30 (UTC)

David McSweeney

Do all people running for the United States House of Representatives appear in this wiktionary? Or is it just Him?

This is debatable. Anyone can add articles; however, community consensus has in the past not been favourable to including candidates for political office unless they're otherwise significant (which this guy doesn't much seem to be) or the office is very important (so, for example, Presidential candidates). So some do, but certainly not all - if nothing else, people tend not to have the time and energy to write all those articles.
In addition, that article reads like it was written by his campaign team (which it quite possibly was...); hmm. hmm hmm. It may well get nominated for deletion soon, and then people can figure out ig it should be in here. Shimgray 22:55, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
And now it's been marked as a copyright violation, rendering it pretty much academic... Shimgray 23:11, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

Why is my addition to "Wikipedia:Votes for deletion" not showing up?

I added the following to Wikipedia:Votes for deletion:

{{Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Worm, From Ed's Room}}

However, the topic does not show up on the page. My comment was appended to someone else's comment about Metablogging. Any clue why this has happened, and how I can fix it? Thanks. Extreme Unction 02:29, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

You forgot to add the section header. Dmcdevit already fixed it up, are you sure you followed the instructions at the bottom of WP:VFD exactly? The use of the templates those instructions reference may be a little more typing, but it does prevent stuff like forgetting the header. --fvw* 02:37, August 30, 2005 (UTC)

Valid article keeps getting deleted.

I posted an article about a real urban legend in my own town and it was deleted. I assumed it was because of a picture that might be offensive to some, so I censored the picture and re-posted the article. The article again was deleted with no explanation other than Utter, nonsense.

I assure you it was a very real and valid article. I can see how it could easily offend people due to the subject matter but I thought this was a place for free speach. I've seen many other articles similiar to mine and they go untouched because they happen to be about a popular subject.

My article has been given the false label of vandalism and I'm threatened with being blocked from Wikipedia when I have done nothing but try and share the local youth culture of my area.

Can someone please tell me how I can post my article without having it deleted or myself being banned?

Thank you, and let's keep free speach going please.

It is helpful to say what the article title was that gets deleted, as deleted articles do not appear in an editor contributions. Looking through the deletion log I'm guessing the article you are referring to is Dick nigger. And I agree with Lucky 6.9 who deleted it -- it is utter nonsense. Are you able to provide some reputable references, perhaps a newspaper article from your town (which you fail to name as well). Also remember to sign your posts. Evil MonkeyHello 04:17, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
"... I thought this was a place for free speach." With all respect, that is not the way things work here. The content on Wikipedia does not, in the long run, consist of whatever anyone wants to write (i.e., free speech); rather it is the result of a community consensus on what is appropriate for an encyclopedia. If you want unrestricted free speech, you may start your own website, and post whatever you want on it, or perhaps you can post on some other site with different policies. Here, on the other hand, everything you write is subject to the will of the community. Sometimes that's great, and sometimes it's a problem, but it's always true. (By the way, I am not commenting on your article; it has been deleted, and so only administrators can read it. I am not an administrator.) — Nowhither 07:30, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
  • I agree with Evil Monkey. Because this article looks like nonsense, you need to provide reputable sources to back it up. Just your say-so isn't enough as most people who are purposely vandalizing Wikipedia will say the same about their articles. Simply provide some evidence it's real and you'll find much more people willing to leave it in. - Mgm|(talk) 08:16, August 30, 2005 (UTC)
  • Here are some links that might help. On the question of whether Wikipedia is about free speech: Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not, see especially the discussion of free speech under "Wikipedia is not an anarchy". For finding out about articles that were deleted, including the reason and who did it, see Special:Log/delete and search for the article name. Notinasnaid 10:02, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

You fax number

Hi I want send a Fax page for WIKIPEDIA from Iran , Please mail me a fax number . Thanks Alireza Aghakhany

  • I don't think there is a fax number for Wikipedia. JIP | Talk 09:27, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
  • I couldn't find an official Wikipedia fax number for the Board or for Jimmy Wales, but I'm sure there's numerous Wikipedians who'd be willing to receive it in name of Wikipedia. can you tell us what the fax is about and if there's any particular person it's aimed at? - Mgm|(talk) 09:55, August 30, 2005 (UTC)
  • I've sent this response by email as well. - Mgm|(talk) 12:17, August 30, 2005 (UTC)
  • Alireza (just to make sure things are clear): Wikipedia is not an organization with an office that can receive faxes. It is a website with content provided by people like you all over the world. If you have something you want to add to Wikipedia, you do not need to send it in; you can just add it yourself. Find a page you think needs improvement and click "edit this page" at the top. Or find a topic that has not been written about, search for it, and if you fail to find it, then click "create an article with this title". There is an organization called the "Wikimedia Foundation" that provides overall management and website hosting for Wikipedia, but they do not write Wikipedia. — Nowhither 18:20, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

copyright owner

I was trying to put an article on wikipedia, of which I am the copywrightowner through the organisation where I work. However it was blocked due to "copyright violation". How can I solve this problem?



Thank you for asking. Wikipedia needs to know that there won't be a copyright problem, so if you create a page that duplicates something on another web site, you need to give full details of the permission, the original, and the creator. The place to do this is on the Discussion ("talk") page for the article. Remember that you need more than just 'permission to reproduce on Wikipedia'. It must be released for use on any site, under the Wikipedia license.

Please bear in mind that not all Wikipedian's think it's a good idea to write about yourself or your own organisation, because you may not have a completely impartial view. The argument goes "if the subject is notable enough, someone else will write it". Notinasnaid 15:09, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

We get this question a lot on WP:CP and I feel that our copyright guidelines are unnecessarily silent on this issue. I would first point out that, to preserve the interests of the copyright holder, we can't always just take your word for it that you are, in fact, the copyright holder. I know this must seem frustrating, but we are trying to protect both you and Wikipedia. (In the past we have had some outrageously unfounded claims of copyright ownership.) In my opinion, two ways to "prove" ownership are:
  • Post a GFDL release on the original website.
  • Invite an administrator to contact you via the contact information posted on the website to receive a GFDL release.
Note that full GFDL (or other free licence such as public domain) release is required, not just permission to use. Note also that your text will be subject to change by other editors. I am not a lawyer. This is not legal advice. See also Wikipedia:Spam and Wikipedia:Vanity guidelines; I have not reviewed your content or your website. Bovlb 15:37:07, 2005-08-30 (UTC)